A discussion that's rampant at the moment...
Forcing enemies into guards.
There was complaints after a fight in the Alabaster Road/Serenwilde Forest area where Magnagorans had been attacking Serenwilde guards.

However, the way I see it,
Announce post 139:
"Just as though you cannot summon others into enemy territory, so too you
should not summon others into adjacent locations and barge, beckon or
force them into enemy territory. We will code it so this cannot be done
but this is to put you on notice not to do this maneuver."

... would mean that given that as the Magnagorans had come to that position of their own accord TO attack, and been hopping from the road to the forest to kill Serenwilde guards, then sitting patiently on the road directly outside... forcing them into the room is shouldn't be illegal.

I don't want to split hairs or turn this into a legal discussion. It's more something I want to clarify, particulary by way of a Divine Commandment.

For any players that post here - please don't turn this into a whine and rant session, or get too heated about it.

I would say that if they are sitting on the road outside the guards, trying to kill the gaurds... Kill the players yourself or wait for them to attack to guards to get some extra support, but do not force people into the guards.

It doesn't mattter how much they deserve to be hacked by the commune/city, you should not push people into guards.

Daganev has the right of it. The wording of the Announce clearly states that forcing someone into enemy territory and guards from outside of enemy territory is not allowed. This has no caveat for whether or not they were just attacking. It is not allowed.

I think this isn't the best way to do things, personally. Summoning from outside enemy territory into it should be disallowed, but not using other abilities to push someone into it. Summoning to one room away and then forcing them in is against the spirit of it and should also be disallowed, but it doesn't need to be coded in. Simply knowing that it's not allowed and that the offense is issuable should be enough for people not to do it.

That's what I'm getting at thought - going by the hard word of the Announce posts - "... so too you should not summon others into adjacent locations and barge, beckon or force them into enemy territory."

If we didn't summon them into adjacent location FIRST, does it count?
That's where the, 'there of their own free-will for the purpose of raiding' thing raises the question.

Ah, I see what you are saying, now. By the wording of that Announce, forcing them into enemy areas so long as they had not first been summoned nearby is not addressed and thus allowed. I see your quandary, now, since that smacks of going against the spirit of it if not the wording...I would hope that it is allowed, though.

It turns out that I was wrong about this. Here is the official word:

Message #841 Sent by: Norns
12/27/21:20 "The summon then beckon is merely an example, it does not matter where you force them into enemy territory from, it is always illegal to force someone into enemy territory."

By the wording, this includes beckoning into villages from one room out.

I just hope that this isn't abused by raiders who decide to play bridge troll outside of enemy cities and villages. If you think that this isn't possible, then just look at Achaea.

You're right, that doesn't leave much room for interpretation.

Regarding siege tactics, what if guards could be temporarily marched one or two rooms out from a city?

That is the word.

The only thing I will say is that if someone is obviously abusing Our decision, for example hopping in and out of enemy territory so that they can't be attacked, We won't be happy.

What I am trying to say is, for all those of you that love finding loopholes and abusing Our good will - don't bother. We try to be as accurate as possible when describing these things, but debating technicalities isn't going to get you far when the Administrators of Fates come for you.

If you need clarification, ask for it. If you know what you're doing goes against the spirit of what We're saying, don't do it.

Thank you, Lisaera!
And the Norns, for their answer through Dumihru.

And Melanchthon - I like that idea. If someone in charge of security was able to lead the guards out a room or two temporarily, and then they'd march back in and wouldn't be able to be lead out for a cool off period.

That would be like coding that loophole into the game on purpose. It's exactly the same as beckoning them in.

EDIT: Although now that I think a bit more, I see nothing wrong with guards following attackers up to one room outside their territory. Although then they just hover 2 rooms out and hit and run that way. Seems like if people want to be idiots, there's not much stopping them.