Weep for the Faelings

by Elryn

Back to Combat Logs.

Elryn2005-03-02 13:22:52
This can hardly be called a combat log, but I just want to point out that in this circumstance, I had about half a second to do anything before dying. I'm a level 59 (damn that unreachable 60!) Faeling, wearing a Torc of +10% health/mana/ego. I was just walking around, so I wasn't in any particular stance. I was wearing leather armour (apparently the best for my class) and am Virtuoso in Resilience.

Oh, and I don't have any problem with Murphy killing me, he's a damn good fighter and it was justified... I just wish I'd had those few extra seconds to do what Faelings are apparently best at - escaping. I don't want knights downgraded, but I think it would be nice if we Faelings had -some- chance when ambushed. Not much, but some.

That stun left me with very little time to do anything, though I was able to stand. happy.gif Maybe we should be content with that.

CODE

2147h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p ex-
A frost hag spares a glance for you as you leave.
A frost hag spares a glance for you as you leave.
Great Southern Highway by Stewartsville. (road).
Superimposed over this location, an ethereal forest reaches up to the sky. It
is raining lightly, and fat drops of rain fall pleasantly past. Running
parallel to the Southern Mountains, the highway meanders through the lower
boundaries of the basin of civilization. The ground is smoothed by time, by
feet, by beasts of burden, all of whom continually press down upon any
vegetation who dares to try to shoot a sprout up in the path of commerce. A
small path leads to the hamlet of Stewartsville, a cosy little farming village
amongst the flat fields of the southern plains. From here, the sound of
children laughing can be heard.
You see exits leading north, east, and west.
2147h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p ex-
Murphy whips a tormented spectre flail through the air in front of you, to no
effect.
2147h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p ex-
With a focused look, Murphy strikes at you with a tormented spectre flail. Your
right leg is elegantly crushed and swept out from under you, knocking you to
the ground.
1371h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-drink health

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
1371h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-
You bleed 32 health.
clot
1339h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-n

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
1339h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-n

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
1339h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-
You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
1339h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-
You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
1339h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-n

With a focused look, Murphy strikes at you with a tormented spectre flail. You
are hit on the right thigh for a minor bruise.
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-n

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-n

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-
You are no longer stunned.
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-n

You must first raise yourself from the floor and stand up.
stand
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-
You must first raise yourself from the floor and stand up.
stand
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-
You must first raise yourself from the floor and stand up.
stand
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-
You stand up and stretch your arms out wide.
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p ex-
You are not fallen or kneeling.
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p ex-
You are not fallen or kneeling.
695h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p ex-
With a focused look, Murphy strikes at you with a tormented spectre flail. Your
right leg is elegantly striked and swept out from under you, knocking you to
the ground.
Your insomnia has cleared up.
insomnia
16h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-
You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
16h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-nature flow althana
nature flow althana

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
16h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-nature flow althana

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
16h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p exp-nature flow althana
nature flow althana
nature flow althana

You fall to the ground as the last drops of life-giving blood drain out of your
body.
You have been slain by Murphy.
0h, 3315m, 3704e, 10p ex-

Elryn2005-03-02 13:26:54
Oh, and is thirdeye bugged? I haven't been able to see shrouded people this month, unless there is a new ability that's just arrived.

Edit: Hmm, maybe I'm mistaken... I can see shrouded people now. I do hope my luck wasn't so bad that Murphy moved into the room just as I did though. doh.gif
Unknown2005-03-02 13:56:47
Thirdeye lets you see them if they are already in the room. It does not let you see them enter.

Also, it isn't just faelings, it is everyone, warriors do a retarded amount of damage, and the elemental runes were a horrible idea for an artifact (the others are fine).
Murphy2005-03-02 14:12:27
Pshhh Tuek. Your resistances to damage via learning resilience is in the same basket as my elemental rune damage. As is the 50% affliction rate, and you shrugging my venoms.

Deal with it, or make speed knights good.
Unknown2005-03-02 14:19:03
Actually, resilience reduces damage by very little, as compared to how much Magic reduces magic damage. Also, did I say your name Murphy? No, no I did not. I guess since you seem to think I did, you must know that an imbalance exists, since you are so defensive.
Amaru2005-03-02 14:27:26
Haha no censor.gif , if you want to fight, don't be a faeling. Where's the RP in an incredibly resilient little faeling? It's not happening.

EDIT: Watch your language. ~Shiri~
Narsrim2005-03-02 14:50:13
QUOTE(Amaru @ Mar 2 2005, 10:27 AM)
Haha no censor.gif , if you want to fight, don't be a faeling. Where's the RP in an incredibly resilient little faeling? It's not happening.
63894



Wrong. Let's assume a Faeling was a race in Aetolia/Achaea. With trans avoidance (and perhaps boots of dexterity although not necessary in this case), they would dodge at least 1/3 - 1/4 attacks. I remember in Aetolia how angry I was at times fighting a Rajamala with trans avoidance because they were always able to dodge 45% of my frenzies.

EDIT: In theory, Faelings should be hard to hit but given the structure of the combat skillset, this is not the case. Furthermore, whereas stancing is useful it is a -lot- weaker than Avoidance. With trans Avoidance, you always had a chance to dodge attacks regardless of where the person targetted. In Lusternia, you have to plan ahead and even in the best of situations, 50% of your body is open to hardcore damage with a -very- small chance to dodge (even for a Faeling). This is more or less because the stances don't allow you to cover the two most crucial parts (feet and head). You can pick one or you can pick the other.

Also, I believe there is a Knight skill that let's said knight assess the stance of the target... this further screws over the whole stance-to-dodge idea.
Amaru2005-03-02 15:16:44
Nimble maybe, but not resilient. I thought it was being suggested that faelings be made able to withstand more damage.
Ixion2005-03-02 16:10:37
QUOTE(Anonymous @ Mar 2 2005, 09:19 AM)
Actually, resilience reduces damage by very little, as compared to how much Magic reduces magic damage. Also, did I say your name Murphy? No, no I did not. I guess since you seem to think I did, you must know that an imbalance exists, since you are so defensive.
63892



You more or less did because only very few of us have lightning runes. As for being defenseive about skills, check out every post Narsrim has ever made. (Sorry Narsrim, you were a perfect example)
Ixion2005-03-02 16:12:35
QUOTE(Murphy @ Mar 2 2005, 09:12 AM)
Deal with it, or make speed knights good.
63890



Please no, never incorporate speed knights, not when there's a decent balance for strength knights.
Gwylifar2005-03-02 16:18:50
He didn't ask to be a good fighter, just to have a chance to get away.

But I don't see why faelings should be better at resisting stun than anyone else. The log would have been the same for anyone, really. The real question is whether Murphy can do stunlock reliably, and I'm guessing he can't, he just got lucky to have the second stun hit just after the first one came off. You had a window of opportunity to get away between them but it was very narrow, so narrow it really needed a trigger or at least a hotkey.

Maybe bonecrushers should get stuns a little less often. Maybe not. I'm not really sure.
Gwylifar2005-03-02 16:22:53
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Mar 2 2005, 10:50 AM)
Also, I believe there is a Knight skill that let's said knight assess the stance of the target... this further screws over the whole stance-to-dodge idea.
63903



The skill you're thinking of shows combat styles, not stances. (Non-warriors don't use combat styles.) It also shows one piece of information about parry, but the odds of it being a useful piece of information are so slim, compared to the equilibrium cost, that it's not usually worthwhile to use it. You can get a better idea of parry just by seeing whether they're parrying you, and knowing their combat style is of limited use since there's not a lot you can do to counter it anyway.
Terenas2005-03-02 16:26:02
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Mar 2 2005, 02:50 PM)
Wrong. Let's assume a Faeling was a race in Aetolia/Achaea. With trans avoidance (and perhaps boots of dexterity although not necessary in this case), they would dodge at least 1/3 - 1/4 attacks. I remember in Aetolia how angry I was at times fighting a Rajamala with trans avoidance because they were always able to dodge 45% of my frenzies.

EDIT: In theory, Faelings should be hard to hit but given the structure of the combat skillset, this is not the case. Furthermore, whereas stancing is useful it is a -lot- weaker than Avoidance. With trans Avoidance, you always had a chance to dodge attacks regardless of where the person targetted. In Lusternia, you have to plan ahead and even in the best of situations, 50% of your body is open to hardcore damage with a -very- small chance to dodge (even for a Faeling). This is more or less because the stances don't allow you to cover the two most crucial parts (feet and head). You can pick one or you can pick the other.

Also, I believe there is a Knight skill that let's said knight assess the stance of the target... this further screws over the whole stance-to-dodge idea.
63903



You're also forgetting the fact that knight accuracy here is a lot worse than in Achaea or Aetolia. In Achaea with just 170 and 150 to hit rapiers, I essentially never miss unless against Serpents with Trans avoidance, weaving, and level 3 dexterity boots. However, with 170 to hit weapons here, I miss on a Taurian or Dracnari quite often, even twice in a row at times, and they have 10 dexterity!

Also, parrying in Lusternia is vastly better than in Achaea since you are able to parry more than one limb at a time. Why not stance legs and parry head 100? That seems feasible doesn't it?

Lastly, you're talking about assay in knighthood. This ability uses around 3.5 seconds eq for me, so around 4 seconds with a class with no eq bonus. It tells you what fighting style the opponent is using (only applicable to knights) and tells you randomly how much your target is parrying -one- limb. It is in no way useful considering there are 7 limbs total, and since most people parry 50/50, how many times do you think knights have to assay to tell which limbs our targets are parrying? That's why this ability is never used at all due to the eq cost, why not just hack at the limb to find out if s/he is parrying it or not?
Elryn2005-03-02 23:03:20
QUOTE(Gwylifar @ Mar 3 2005, 02:18 AM)
He didn't ask to be a good fighter, just to have a chance to get away.

But I don't see why faelings should be better at resisting stun than anyone else.  The log would have been the same for anyone, really.  The real question is whether Murphy can do stunlock reliably, and I'm guessing he can't, he just got lucky to have the second stun hit just after the first one came off.  You had a window of opportunity to get away between them but it was very narrow, so narrow it really needed  a trigger or at least a hotkey.

Maybe bonecrushers should get stuns a little less often.  Maybe not.  I'm not really sure.
63940


Correct, Gwylifar. And I don't think we should have shorter stun either, it would make more rp sense for us to be more vulnerable to stun (but please don't do that!). I just want us to be incredibly hard to hit. You're swinging a flail at a hovering little butterfly that is darting around swiftly and evasively. How many times are you actually going to hit?
Terenas2005-03-02 23:07:24
QUOTE(Elryn @ Mar 2 2005, 11:03 PM)
Correct, Gwylifar.  And I don't think we should have shorter stun either, it would make more rp sense for us to be more vulnerable to stun (but please don't do that!).  I just want us to be incredibly hard to hit.  You're swinging a flail at a hovering little butterfly that is darting around swiftly and evasively.  How many times are you actually going to hit?
64234


I guess the real question is, have you put any lessons into Resilience or Combat? Those two general skills were put in place specificallly against Knights, if you did not bother to put any lessons into those, you can't expect Knights that have transed Knighthoods to have problems hitting you, can you?
Elryn2005-03-02 23:08:56
I'm Expert combat and Virtuoso Resilience. Not Trans, mind you, but come on... that still has to count for something.
Terenas2005-03-02 23:13:32
QUOTE(Elryn @ Mar 2 2005, 11:08 PM)
I'm Expert combat and Virtuoso Resilience.  Not Trans, mind you, but come on... that still has to count for something.
64246


Sadly, they don't. Consider this, lessons spent in skills that aids in resisting or avoiding are not based on skillranks, but rather lessons learned. If I put 1715 lessons into learning Knighthood to trans it, and you put in 423 lessons to get Expert Combat for dodging, and 600 lessons in Resilience to resist damage, does it make more sense that I could be able to hit you more or that you should be able to dodge more?
Geb2005-03-02 23:17:56
QUOTE(Elryn @ Mar 3 2005, 12:03 AM)
Correct, Gwylifar.  And I don't think we should have shorter stun either, it would make more rp sense for us to be more vulnerable to stun (but please don't do that!).  I just want us to be incredibly hard to hit.  You're swinging a flail at a hovering little butterfly that is darting around swiftly and evasively.  How many times are you actually going to hit?
64234



Role-play wise, yes it would be hard to hit a fealing. Once the faeling was hit though, it would curtains for the little guy.
Elryn2005-03-02 23:24:37
QUOTE(terenas @ Mar 3 2005, 09:13 AM)
Sadly, they don't. Consider this, lessons spent in skills that aids in resisting or avoiding are not based on skillranks, but rather lessons learned. If I put 1715 lessons into learning Knighthood to trans it, and you put in 423 lessons to get Expert Combat for dodging, and 600 lessons in Resilience to resist damage, does it make more sense that I could be able to hit you more or that you should be able to dodge more?
64254


If I have chosen a race that severely curtains my bashing, and allows almost any class or creature to obliterate me in a few hits, then yes. I think it is fair we can dodge.

If I have put 1715 lessons into Druidry, and 1715 lessons into Stag and 1715 lessons into Runes... does that mean I should be capable in one-on-one fighting? Nope, I'm a Faeling, my race excludes that. Does that mean that my enemies have to spend equal amounts to be eligible to resist my skills at all? Nope, they just have to invest in good armour.

I just think that the argument that a Knight has 'spent' more to be able to kill in three hits isn't very conclusive. Yes, combat and resilience play a role, but really if you're expecting a Faeling to rely on resilience... well... good luck to them.
Unknown2005-03-02 23:27:46
QUOTE(Ixion @ Mar 2 2005, 06:10 AM)
You more or less did because only very few of us have lightning runes.
63935


No, I'm saying in general. Resilience barely affects physical damage, it moreso affects venom shrugging then anything. However, Magic reduces magic damage a huge amount.