Ok in hartstones demesne,

No only does it give you confusion paralyse, but iot also gives dementian and hallucinations plus very healthy damage.

CMON thats without having anything fused?!?!?!?!??!!?

It also pulls you into tress

Not to mention ALSO gives you asthma

Upgrade us or downgrade them, its WAY too powerful, and they get runes as well? CMON they also get briar walls which is even more lethal.

Give me a break its worse than groves in achaea, and its PORTABLE. Cmon, it messes you up healing wise over and over and over, imagine if they were superslinging too with fused runes? REALLY someone look at it objectively

Whine in Idiots, chasm-whore.

I'm only a chasm whore on you, because it works everytime, a fault on your part rather than mine. I still kill you with damage so back in your box Aris.

No, Hartstone demesnes are -not- overpowered. Yes, we can paralyse, give asthma, etc. But Storm only does about 300 damage, cudgel about 500 damage. A lot of bleeding, yes, but that's easy to put a stop to. And remember, we don't have anything like Boulderblast, and our pet doesn't do damage. I think our demesnes are just as strong as they need to be. It's Geomancer and Aquamancer demesnes that seriously need to be improved.

Edit: forgot, we also lack an ability to summon people in our demesnes.

I actually fear the Geomancer demesne more mainly because of the summons ability. The Hartstone Demesnes are easy to handle once you learn how.

Well, if you fear demense summoning, you should try getting wisped sometimes. The Moondancers have a much larger "demense" to use it in.

More moaning about wisp...

I've got that violin around here somewhere....

Aquamancers have the better demesne, think about it. It gives a 2 second stun every 9-10 seconds. Stun is worse then paralyze because it stops you from doing anything at all. They can infuse paralyze, which is 2.4 seconds or so to focus if you are transcendent discipline (else it is longer). That is an automatic 4.4 seconds out of 9 seconds you are disabled, so you are disabled 50% of the time. Then add in phantoms + reality, since they stack. That means, you will be getting hallucinations periodically which causes additional stun, plus entangled constantly. Then you'll end up getting hit with needle rain to strip away waterwalking, water breath, fire and frost defenses, and so consequently, you'll end up getting frozen while waiting for stun to wear off. Finally, if they are smart, they'll use a reflex to supersling when stun hits, so for a guaranteed 2 seconds you'll be stuck with something like hypochondria/stupidity, or stupidity/disloyalty (if you are a Moondancer/Guardian). So in essence, if they feel like webbing you a bit, an Aquamancer can keep you nearly completely disabled.

If there are two Aquamancers in a room, and both of them cast their effects.. well then you just won't have a nice day.

As for Hartstone, they aren't overpowered. Why you ask? They can't give you phantoms, a no cost affliction that lasts a long time. They cannot put up reality. They cannot illusion while tossing runes to lengthen your herb balance, they cannot illusion wounds to screw an autosipper, and they can't turn into a statue if they feel threatened. All of which Aquamancers and Geomancers can do. Phantoms/Reality is one of the greatest things around.

Not to mention, Geomancers demesne's do the best damage, and stonewalls are the best ability for denying access to an area, plus you have chasm, the only Mage/Druid class to get an instantkill, and it only costs 3 power. Geomancers are fine.

Just as a side note, if you get wisped into a Hartstone demesne...
that means you're fighting two people now. A Moondancer with fae at least up to wisp, and a Hartstone.

Hartstone demesnes aren't really that hard... I'm more annoyed with the Aquamancer demesnes, because stun is just a bit harder for me to handle when compared with paralysis... sure, I can't attack while paralysed, but hell, I was probably off balance then anyway. And they can drag you into trees. So? Just go down, bam, you're back on the ground.

And bleeding damage isn't healthy for any fighter who has a decent stock of chervil... and chervil is pretty cheap anyway. And I think it actually clots more than a low level clotting skill.

Dementia and hallucinations aren't all that bad, and neither is the asthma it gives. You can cure it all in one go providing you aren't vlocked. It's not like you don't know what's happening. Confusion... heck, I didn't even know it gave confusion. =\\ Maybe I just haven't fought a high enough Hartstoner yet.

Now, sap, ah, I hate sap... but then I also hate ectoplasm. At least sap costs power... ectoplasm is free.

Although maybe geomancer demesnes do need a bit of an upgrade... then again, I haven't fought against a geomancer in a long time. And I have no idea what sickening does.

Good points all round there.....Both aquamancers and Hartstone have half decent demense, give my demesne some upgrades and I'll never say another ill word about aqua or stoners...

No, you do not need upgrades. A Geomancers advantages are Chasm, Stonewalls, and by far the highest damage demesne. Aquamancers can hold you down like no other, and Hartstone druids are well... Druids.

If you want more upgrades, then chasm, stonewalls, and the damage has got to go, if you truly want to be equal with Druids and Aquamancers. You can't have all of their positives, while keeping all of your positives, and having no negatives.

Edit: I'd rate their demesne's as Aquamancers the strongest, Hartstone second, and Geomancers third. All around though, as the most effective at killing people, I'd put Geomancers and Aquamancers tied for first, with Hartstone very close behind, meh might as well say they are equal. As for teaming people, I'd say Geomancers win, damage rules group combat (not to mention, if you statue for a moment to take any focus off of you, you can sneak a chasm or two in there with ease.)

I disagree Tuek. I'm not saying sweeping huge upgrades, but how about a bit of an upgrade for the demesne. As it stands all ours does is a bit of damage and no real afflictions, how about anorexia or asthma occasionally? Itd be real nice to get the demesne giving a few afflictions here and there, slow them down a bit. Or how bout the ability to strip shields from the next room? something fun I think is in line.

Hartone demenses aren't overpowered and Geomancer's demense doesn't need to be ugraded

Yet again shiro doesn't add -ANYTHING- constructive to the conversation. Back up your claims at least with something, or add something contructive rather than acting like a bloody idiot.

To be honest, you aren't either.

The consensus here is that geomancer's demenses are fine for reasons that have been stated at least twice. Refuting that would go a long way towards making your point.

okay, I have fought both in a geomancer's demense and a hartstone demenses both users were trans and both were the same. Stupid little prick.

How can you possibly say both are the same? they do totally different afflictions......

not only that, but the skill of the user should come into account, Hartstones can fuse runes in there too, heaven forbid someone actually uses it properly

They both had the same amount of trouble in them and both were a pain in the . The point is, I see both hartstone demense and geomancers nearly the same level in power

Well, Shiro, given the general opinion of you, your thoughts and feelings (and experience) is worth about as much as bear found in the woods. Especially as far as I'm concerned.

I find the Stoners demesnes to be a major pain, especially when they stack abilities. Paralysis every second or so is NOT fun. I only have so much coltsfoot.

While you do hold valid points that a Geomancer has some powerful abilities (Chasm, for one), that requires them to physically be in the room, and uninterrupted casting.

However, boulder is powerful, but an aquamancer's storm isn't all that shabby, either. I agree, the Geos DO need a demesne upgrade. Although It's been a long time since I've fought a Geo in his demesne, so.

Iunno. I'm not seeing a ton of Geos hop on the thread and argue, so I'd lean in agreement with Tuek. It just must sark for Geos to have to physically be there for a lot of their abilities to work, while a Drood can just stack up a ton of abilities (I doubt many will really stop until it's fixed) and whore you dead.

I really should get an allheale. >.o

Language - Lisaera

Aquamancers can do it worse. 2 seconds of stun every 9-10 seconds... now multiply that times 5 Aquamancers.

Anyhow, I thought they could only stack effects in the same room, and that was a feature, whereas only the owner of the Demesne could cast their effects throughout (not the others). But I guess it is a bug... or is just a bug that somehow more then one have been casting throughout the entire demesne?

Edit: But anyhow, looking at the scheme of things, and how Geomancer skills work together, they are fine. If you want upgrades, lose the chasm. You'll be sorry you ever did. You have a great combination of abilities.

Edits: A bunch of miscellaneous edits stuck in there.