Ok, I haven't fully thought through the implications of this, and its off the top of my head (although I think others have suggested similar things in the past).

What if we could engage in player-to-player ego battles? Like debating, but using all of the influence skills? The only influence type outcome that wouldn't make much sense on players is paranoia, but I'm sure something could be thought up for that. After you win, the other person suffers slight (probably not as much as death) experience loss, and bears some slight effect that lasts for a few minutes.

If you engage in an influence battle with someone else, you are locked into a battle of that particular type. They can respond with any type, but are then locked into influence attacks of that style. Also, neither they or you could physically attack each other while the battle is in progress. Moving would end the battle. You couldn't engage in an influence battle if you have been involved in physical combat with the person in the past day (and maybe some other limitations to make it balanced).

The way I see it, this might give high charisma but worthless in combat races (like Faelings) some advantage. One problem I have with the argument that influence/combat are equal and different, is that someone who is physically stronger than you can steal/kill/hinder you against your wishes, but someone who is stronger in influence can do none of these things (with influence).

Thoughts? Flames?

Sounds good from this faeling's point of view.

One other limitation I can think of off the top of my head is that the influencers cannot engage with physical combat for a limited time after the ego battle. Y'know, to prevent the theoretically combat-superior loser from crushing the non-combat winner straight after, and giving the non-combatant time to run away.

Ah, good point, and good idea.

So you can completely neuter a fighter who hasn't dumped 300cr into influencing, or is a low charisma race? By allowing an influencer to in essence put uncurable peace on the target I think you're allowing too much abuse.

Like a bonecrusher can completely neuter anyone who hasnt dumped credits into resiliance, discipline and combat? or is a low constitution race? By allowing a fighter to in essence put uncurable death on the target, I think youre allowing too much abuse.

Not incurable peace for long, just towards the influencer for maybe 5 minutes, so that the fighter doesn't PK the influencer right off just for experience, or just for kicks.

First, all you have to do is leave to end the battle. Without prior preparation, thats not hard.

Second.. uncurable peace? Do you mean the peace after someone wins? I would think that would only last for a very brief time.

I agree with Akraasiel somewhat, the argument that it's unfair on people who haven't transed influence or are a low charisma race would be equivalent to the argument that forced combat is unfair on those who haven't transed their guild skills, studied afflictions in depth, created complex systems, and are of low constitution races.

Better, but still - a 5 minute uncurable peace is too much.

Elryn: Think about it a little longer. Imagine a raid situation. Big Bad fighter is coming in, and nobody can really tank him. So I just run in and start an influence battle. I don't care if I lose or whatever, he'll die due to my buddies well before he can finish me off, and he'll be unable to attack anyone at all.

Work on balance then come back.

During the ego battle, I didn't say he couldn't attack anyone at all, just not the person who is influencing. At the moment, I can be influencing during a raid, someone can come in, afflict me while I'm off balance and being questioned, and I die. Is there much difference?

Edit:

Ok, lets say Big Bad can't be killed by combat... but he is very uncharismatic and influenceable. Crazy Faeling runs in and starts influencing him. (Silly little guy thinks he has a chance now against Big Bad). After the ego-battle starts, Big Bad cannot physically attack Crazy Faeling, but has the option of either fleeing the room to escape, or just telling his buddies to pick off poor little Crazy Faeling. I don't see that as unbalanced.

In fact, it is far more balanced than the current situation, where there is -no- point in Crazy Faeling being involved in any sort of conflict outside of village influencing. Even there, he can only influence npcs if he can manage to stay on sanctuary spots, but is fodder if he moves between them. I'm not even sure he has much advantage in debating over anyone else.

The Big Bad Fighter can also choose to move out of the room. Plus if you start the influence battle, he can very well choose to ignore you since combat skills don't require ego at all. At least not that I know of.

And also - what Elryn said.


Edit: You do realize that by editing your post, Elryn, you render this post completely useless.

I have no idea why it's unbalanced for someone to peace someone else who doesn't have influencing for 5 minutes, when it's NOT unbalanced for Daevos to kill me and have me praying and losing a tonne of experience unless I have trans guildskills, a decent non-JAVA system, the coding knowledge to make one on say MUSHClient if I don't have any money, trans resilience too probably, enough levelling to get any sort of health to resist him, and be a good race i.e. not furrikin or faeling.

This sounds -perfectly- reasonable to me.

Because what he does needs skill, numerous trans skills, hours of practice and a high level. Having one skill, and any level on the person, cancel out all that, would be unbalanced. However, for him to be able to kill you, is not unbalanced, since he's made huge investments and effort to be able to do so. What you're saying is like "I don't see why his porsche should be faster than my mini".

It's more like asking why his porsche has a rocket launcher attached to the back that he can blow my mini up with before I've even switched the engine on.

It's because your car is really slow, cheap, old and you suck at driving it comparatively?

...uh...so because I ALREADY have a slow, dodgy car he can blow it to pieces before I've even started moving? He should beat me in a race, yes, but not just destroy me entirely.

Um.. are you arguing that all races are equally suited to combat? That the reason a Viscanti/Tae'dae can kill a Faeling/Furrikin so easily is purely because the big guys have put a 'huge investment' into their characters, while the little guys haven't?

Your argument about level is also not applicable here. You gain ego with level just like you do health. Someone who is level five but trans influence will probably influence-death just by a single attempt to charm someone else, because their ego is so low. Someone who is twenty levels above another should have much more ego than them, so the same balance between experienced/non-experienced characters engaging in combat would apply exactly the same to ego-battles.

Although I would like some more influence skills to be scattered through guild skills (not likely to happen, mind you), there already are benefits to being skilled in other areas in terms of influencing. We Moondancers have Sun spirit and Light. So it would not be purely dependent on one skill.

Also, when you say 'skill' I believe you really mean ooc skill, and you're right, I totally agree. It does take a lot of time scripting/learning cures/setting up macros etc to be a good combatant. But that doesn't necessarily translate into in-game balance. Of course, I'd be happy for influencing to be that complex if that is what is desired, I just don't think it is essential. The means of escaping an ego-battle as I've set them out are far too easy. If you make the actual battle much harder, then that would have to be adjusted to bring it back into line with combat.

In summary, I'm saying, "I don't see why we should spend the same amount of money, and he get an army tank that can utterly annihilate me, and I get a mini in a pretty colour." I don't mind some races being better suited to combat than others, but I -do- mind it when combat is the only means of interaction.

It is a question of balance.

I love this idea.

The peace-time from losing an influence battle should mirror the time it takes for you to PRAY FOR SALVATION.

If someone can stick Laneth with a sword because I don't have the money to pump up the combat related skills, well, Laneth should be able to talk their ear off.

I as an influencer love this idea. When I go somewhere, anywhere, I am basically open for anyone, even a novice, to kill me easily. That is the choice that I made, to invest lessons into influence, but I think that the influence skillset has so many possible applications that have not been explored, and that need to be. I think that if influence is not modified to somewhat empower the influencer in a combat situation, then it really isn't being explored completely, whereas fighters have guildskills, combat, riding, planar, resilience, magic, high and lowmagic, all of which provide combat advantages but do nothing for influence, while a non-fighter basically only has influencing to invest lessons in if he wants to spend lessons on a skill that he will actually use.

Influence in combat really is the next logical evolution of the idea. I'm just waiting for the firebrand preacher to denounce the big bad Ur'Guard for their sins and send them crying home, begging for redemption.

But seriously, Influence in combat would be full of verbal barbs, satire, long winded speeches... Heh, could even allow the players to create their own little description of the speech or taunt so to increase the Roleplay of a battle... Instead of jump, gang, gang, gang, killed him, go wait for him to come back to life so my friend can kill him.