I was just looking at possibly changing classes, and came to the realization of just how many lessons I'd lose. I'd go from 2 transed skills to having 1 transed with only a few lessons left over. So my question is, do you like the current amount of lessons loss from transferring lessons between pools. I know Achaea just recently reduced the amount of lesson loss to change class, so what do you all think?

My personal opinion is that its a little high for being a semi-new realm, but at the same time you don't want people jumping guilds too much. Tone it down a little bit but leave some penalty in there.

Umm...

Anyway, it could be lowered.

Yes, its messed up and double posted. Hoping a moderator will get to changing it sometime soon and deleting the double posting.

Being perhaps one of the most travelled Lusternians (been in 4 guilds now, and all tradeskills but alchemy) Im definately gonna say yeah, it costs out the ass to change archetypes, or even to switch to a similar archetype with a different guild.

Hell yeah. Is there a way to refund some of us who changed if they -do- change this? Maybe a credit sale?

It makes no sense for someone to lose two-thirds of their lessons, despite switching archetypes. I realize it's a big choice, but gee. Let's do some math.

1715 lessons for Transecendent.

Now for forgetting a skill you lose 25% automatically and ending up with 1286 lessons (Six lessons less than Mythical). Is this bad? Not really, but that's considering you stay within the same pool. A Guardian to Mage switch wouldn't be too harsh.

Tarot/Healing/Hexes is the same pool as Runes. Same as Elementalism and Nature, and the necessary Low/High Magic skill requirements.

The real problem is when Melee Pool users switch to a non-Melee pool class.

Now, assuming you're Transcendent, you begin with the 1286 lessons (Six lessons less than Mythical). Forgetting these lessons to put them into another lesson pool would put you at 643 lessons, which is a little more than one-third of your original lessons.

So a warrior would end up with 1286 lessons for transfer from Athletics and their Knighthood specialization. This probably doesn't seem bad, but that's a low blow going from 3430 lessons to 1286 (2144 lesson difference, which is one Transcendent skill and an Expert skill.)

From an out of character perspective that's a $120 USD loss (At 33.8 cent per credit). Around... 357 (And a third if you really care about 2 lessons) credits.

Anyone have any comments?

Ive gone from trans runes geomancy illusions arts enchants riding highmagic to barely trans one. Yeah. In other IRE games, you lose 10%. All I can say is ouch.

I was going to submit something, to go along with guild ranks:
GR1 - You keep your skills if you quit guild, but can't learn or teach them. Forgetting your skills gets you 75% of your lessons back as "free lessons"
Gr2 - You keep your skills and can learn but can't teach, but only 50% back as free
Gr3+ - You keep your skills, can learn and teach others, but lose skills into the apropriate pool, rather then to free lessons.

I'll work out the math for all archetypes to archetype (even Mage to Mage) soon as well and post those along with my original post.

Um... no telling what I'll do with this post at that time. Maybe make a response to Drago's post (You lose more as you go up in rank?).

And no one mention Aetolia. It's cursed.

Ok, I fixed the poll. Keep in mind the logic was that going from similar guilds would have a very low loss of skill (i.e., from a geomancer to aquamancer) whereas making huge changes in archetype would be costly (i.e., from geomancer to paladin).

I think the problem with this logic is that, while going between similar guilds is less costly, it's also far less likely to happen. There's no way in hell I'd ever go Geomancer, for instance, but I might consider becoming a Paladin if I didn't expect to get my skills raped in the process.

Exactly. My character happened to get skill raped switching from a Warrior to Mage specialization, and while I realize that this is legitimate I think the same can be said for forgetting skills in general.

I guess it's a good business option for IRE, but otherwise uhm... boo?

I agree. I got shafted (that word is hilarious) when I switched from Nihilist to Geomancy. I forgot jewelry, and I'm not trans any of my guildskills, from 3 trans skills. (mythical geomancy and runes, virtuoso illusions, this was with 30 mentor credits, 20 bought credits, and given 15 credits).

try going from trans 7 to trans 1 Silv, then it really blows. Oh, and can someone change my vote over to the major overhaul category.

In now way am I saying this is hurting the game or anything, and I do see much of the reasoning behind it. Personally, I would like to switch to the Nihilists (maybe) and am just worried about the huge amount of lesson loss I'm going to incur by doing so. I have a few friends who changed guilds and they went from 125% of my might to 50% of my might, which frightens me.

Much like Akraasiel (not to his degree), I've switched my tradeskill about 40 times and lost totems when I left Serenwilde. I accept lesson loss on those easily, but losing by transferring twice, from the the subcategory to the mother category, then the mother category to another mother category really adds up. Since I paid RL money for my creds, I end up just calculating how many hours of work I just lost switching guilds. I don't think I'm entitled to keeping all my lessons, but it's like a 75% loss right now. I won't be too hurt if it remains the same, just fishing for thoughts.

Heh, only recently did I start making my credits ingame, up till then I was always doing calculations in my head on just how much OOC work I would have to do in order to get back up to where I was previously ICly.

I think when the new cities open up we'll see alot of cases of people switching guilds for another guild of the same archtype.

Right, but as the Admin have said that could be quite a long time.

I don't want the lesson loss to be completely trashed (Even though that 10% is sounding dreamy. I'll be a little irked if there's a change after my loss. ), but the main issue I have is the Melee pool. Looking at the rest of the Pools there's not likely going to be a major shift between anything but Melee and Spirit/Mind.

Everything else seems extra to learn (Even Planar is in Spirit )... maybe the Pools can just be curbed a bit to support this (Although I guess it would be silly to remove the Body pool.)

You know, I think thats a good point. Which point you ask? The one about switching cities before switching guilds.

The current system, most definitly encourages a person to completely abandon thier city and spiritual nexus, (with little loss) but discourages anyone from changing thier guild from within the same city.

Perhaps something can be done, where you store your lessons in your cities nexus when you forget a skill, and when you relearn a skill, if your still connected to that nexus you get 60% of those lessons back, if your not connected to that nexus, you get 25% back, or something similiar.

I had an idea like that awhile back when I was thinking about switching classes, but being a business I just assumed that this is one of those things that just don't change.

It makes sense in-game though.

I got the impression from Estarra that the way class changing is done, is looked at purely from an IC game balance issue, and has little or nothing to do with economics.


I'm rather dissapointed in myself in not seeing the inter-city transfer incentive during beta.