Simple question, simple answer, complex reasoning. Vote the simple and post the complex.

I'm not around enough, nor do I hear all complaints from all people, but these forums sure have a lot of whiny combat logs.

If Estarra started a thread discussing this issue, I think its probably an issue that needs to be discussed.

Discuss it, then. Post some stats. By more clearly defining the problem it'll be a lot easier to make an exact solution.

I don't feel that there is excessive PK.

There is less PK here then the lowest amount in Imperian.. I think we are at a good balence point... and I will think that for a long time.

There are probably more people dying to Astral creatures than PKed everyday. Eventually they will complain about the Astral creatures being too aggressive and tough and that need to be curbed too.

Excessive in total amounts..no.

Excessive by people random killing for little to no reason....yes.

The biggest complain I have seen is not that it is excessive in general, but more to stop those who don't want to be involved in PK from being jumped in areas that they are doing nothing to the other party in. You don't get Vengeance as they just wait till the timer runs out and then they run back in and kill you again. I believe Estarra posted that to try and stem the number of people who are being killed for no reason at all and curb them tossing up their hands and saying "i quit!"

There is absolutely no reason why someone should leave the game because Thug A, B, or C decides they want to be macho and start killing. There is no mark system to retaliate, and there is no repercussion for unwarranted PK right now unless the person is dumb enough to attack again. Some people don't want to be involved in fighting, and they have the right to that. As much as you have a right to be a shopkeeper, basher, or Fighter if you so choose.

A skill that prevents me from being mindlessly pk'd (while giving up my right to PK someone else) should have little effect on you as a whole. If you are justified in who you PK, a change like that doesn't affect you. However if you are going to mindlessly PK people at some point, then feel free to raise holy hell over something like that going in. If there is a skill that has very little ways to be abused, ie. taking into account enemy territory, defiling, etc....I see this as only helping Lusternia grow. You will get your fighters who can hone their skills on their worthy opponents (other fighters) and you open the avenue for those who just want to RP and not fight to follow their path.

Win Win situation.

I don't think pk is that bad. Except for the war and influencing, I don't get attacked. I don't do things that are going to piss people off and I don't attack people so I'm not being killed. I'm not quite sure what the big deal is or where all this pk is going on that people don't actively get themselves involved in is.

That's true in Achaea as well. If some Thug kills you, you can hire a mark on them, which legitimizes their attack, or issue them. Issuing them doesn't help you at all - and please say you aren't one of those "Issues are weapons hurr hurr" people.

Really, the best thing you can gain either here or in Achaea is immunity from them. I don't hear many complaints about overmuch random PK in Achaea.

It is actively involved when people get killed for simply being from a city or being in the "wrong place right now". I've died in the Glomdoring twice now, and was picking herbs...anyone farseeing or walking into the room could tell. Instead the person jumped into the entrance of the forest...summon..boom...dead.

Let's see, twice in the Sea of Despair, NOT SPECTRE ISLAND, and the reasoning behind it was I'm Magnagoran and good exp due to my ranking.

A buttload of times in the Spectre Isle, which some had decent RP for that while others freely admitted it was just to be a pain in the ass.

Twice in the Balach Swamp for going near the Horehound herbs...even though I am an herbalist and have many who testify that I plant it up a ton.



To this point in my IRE career, I have killed 1 person not involved in village influencing and that was a result of being jumped twice for no reason. I do not PK, and many others do not as well...yet we are grouped in and slaughtered with the "fighters" of our cities. This isn't RP, it is simple thug behaviour.

Correct, which is what we are asking for in the other threads. Protection from the random, mindless killers...nothing much more.

In Achaea if I issue you, and it is upheld...and if you decide to attack again...your punishment goes up. While many people hated the PK rules, it was a good deterrent from mindless random slaughter.

People claim that "I was just walking down the highway and who and who just jumped me for no reason" but most of the time they failed to mention that they were enemied to the opposing city/commune or had participated in a raid/influence the other day, or was questing to enslave/free dwarves, or has been mouthing off to people etc.

I get jumped and killed a few times during the war, but only once after war on elemental. I agree with Rhayni that being PKed is entirely avoidable, as long as you do not go looking for trouble.

Luckily Icarus you aren't in a place that has a diametric opposite, once Glomdoring or something similar shows up, you will know exactly what the unknows Celest and Magnagoran guys go through.

Christ, people should stop jumping on the bandwagon and realise there is barely any PK at all in Lusternia. Curb PK Curb PK! Uhhh? There's nothing to curb! Gonna be a tough time curbing something that doesn't exist, at least not in any amount even near excessive, and the funny thing is, most people calling for curbing never even engage in PK.

Actually, I was a paladin for some time before I moved to Serenwilde. As a Celestian, I was jumped once in the dessert when bashing Gilas, by Riyo. But he cant do that to other people now, can he?

Not jumping on any bandwagon. Most PK is perfectly valid, but we need to do something about some of the inanely stupid pk that goes on. A bigger, happier playerbase is a benefit to us all. And some that scare off people by being thugs, are not helping.

EDIT: And if Riyo was the only one who did it, then yes you are right it would be solved. But there are others, and more will come.

From what I've seen, goes both ways. There are those who kill to give grief or gain xp, and later back it up with the shallowest reasons, if any at all.

And there are those who are involved in raids / raising Crow / jumping people on their city's elemental plane / etc. one day, then expect to be left alone the next. Choosing to be involved is perfectly good RP, is good for your city, and makes you a part of what moves conflict in the realm. But it also means that your name gets called as a target for defenders, and you begin to be known as (for lack of a better word) one of the opposing soldiers.

And you'll be known as such for some period before your name is forgotten. Sometimes you just have to understand that and live with it.

That doesn't mean that people are justified in killing solely for xp, or picking off people because their title/honors gives away their guild/city/race. If people have never been involved in the conflict, or have been out of it for a long time, then attacking them in the middle of nowhere is just griefing.

I voted "no", by the way. I agree that the PK without good RP reasons is just stupid and annoying.

But from what I gather, the only acceptable solution will be an automated system that can define rules that apply in all situations without requiring subjective judgements, even if said judgements could be applied via IC methods.

From my somewhat short IRE experience, that won't solve the problem. When you set down well-defined rules or formulae, people turn it into a numbers game, and the numbers become more important than the reasons for killing (which defeats the point of trying to reduce reason-less killing). On Achaea, people count PKs. The Karma idea does sound interesting. But I can just see people replacing their huge "PK count" lists with "Karma count" lists (Jim has about X karma by now. If I do quest A for Y hours, I can kill Jim once every Z days and still be able to remove his curse).

Edit: Gah, that post grew way longer than I expected If somebody is still reading, sorry about the length.

Edit: Side note - The Prostrate (Rashidat), XP changes (Daganev), and Vigilante council (Desdemona) ideas are kind of interesting because they do address the reasons for PK.

Edit: Because this post needs to be 2 lines longer!

What a dumb poll. Obviously those who can't kill are just gonna vote 'omg i dont lyk pk bcuz i get kilt kthxbai'. While us bigger fighters, (or shrubs who used to be able to fight) can just vote no, because if we can do it for profitable experience, we're not going to complain.

Oh, and Icarus: I told Aether I'd annhialate any Paladin who wasn't a novice who I saw. So I .. did.

Heh I did not complain. Actually what kind of warrior am I if I shy away from physical or violent confrontation?