Place your votes, then rant away as to why you chose what you did.

I think she needs a bit of a talking to from someone with a little power and maybe some pacification aswell that lasts for a set amout of IC hours that only tick down while she plays. that way it might force her to develop something to do other than kill anyone she can.

Just send Munsia a billion dead cows in a pack and send it in a letter saying "Moo! moo. moo?"

Im wondering who the crazy person who voted "did nothing wrong" is... Are some people just out of the loop?

There comes a point where someone becomes nothing more than a detriment to the game world, where their presence provides no benefit, and makes the game experience worse for the people who have to interact with this person. When this point is crossed, I think the character should be removed, as a service to the paying customers of IRE.

Amen Faethan, I could not have said it better myself.

Come to think of it, Riyo got shrubbed indefinately for robbing a novice.

Munsia killed no less than four novices and eight newbies (unranked and new to the realms) over the period of 2 years I was active in Hartstone. (the numbers listed are the ones I was around to observe the deathsight of at the time, Ive kept a running count going. Dont know about any in the past 8 months though.)

I voted for the verbal thing. I think that a God would be able to make Munsia come to her senses... and in the gradual process that she doesn't change, she was warned by the Gods, so a more severe form of punishment could be later on issued upon her.

I don't particularly like this sort of poll. I voted verbal reprimand... I have confidence that if the Admin have a problem they will speak to the person appropriately.

A lot of people pk much more than some of us like, and a lot don't carry consistent roles either. That doesn't mean we get to form vigilante groups oocly and campaign for them to be removed from a game we all enjoy, just because they don't measure up to our standards.

If they are deliberately trying to ruin this game for everyone else, then I'm sure the gods will step in. If not, it isn't really my place to kick someone out just because I don't like them.

Faethan while you would be correct in a completely utopian society, you're wrong everywhere else. While Munsia may be annoying, belligerent and just a plain downer, she hasn't explicitly broken any rules that I've heard of. I have yet to hear of a case where she has explicitly and excessively stepped over the bounds of the PK or Harrassment rules. My impression of her "newbie" killing sprees several were of her being an idiot, several were accidents (Also idiotic). We're in a give or take game as far as rules are concerned. Lusternia doesn't have a lot of rules, and we prefer it that way. However, this will have consequences and a very visible one is the ability of people like Munsia, and Yrael (We can't just point at Serens the entire time) to continue playing. I also want to remind you that Munsia or anyone else is under no circumstances required to RP well, or even RP at all. Lusternia is a RP encouraged environment, not a mandated one. What people are required to do is stay away from OOC comments on public channels and to not bother those who find OOC annoying with it.

So why should she be punished? Because we don't like her? No, that simply wouldn't fair. Its not IRE, or Lusternia's place, or even correct action, to ban her over an issue with popularity.

There's not really a simple solution to deal with players like her. However, ignoring her actions, and retaliating severly for ones that affect the world (N.B.: PK does not always have the best effect) often will work to a certain extent.

I liked the "if she's too much of a pain, make it so the paying customers don't have to suffer".

I voted temp shrub, but I'm somewhat biased, so don't ask me to back up why I voted that.

And I don't really like this sort of poll either, even though it -is- her. I'll let it go though, as long as the Divine don't have any problems.

To suggest that Munsia has never broken a rule only shows that you have never read the rules. HELP 15.1 gives us a few that we can all agree she has broken:


d) Mature behavior is required at all times. Persistent immaturity will result
in deletion. We have no patience for it.

Does anyone actually believe that Munsia is anything other than persistently immature?

e) Player-killing is allowed, but do not victimize innocent players.
See HELP AVENGER for Lusternia's PK system.

The frequency of novice/newbie kills by Munsia is clearly victimization of the innocent. It is -not-, regardless of what she might say, too difficult to honours someone before killing them.

f) Roleplaying is required in all public forums (shouting, guildtell, the news,
etc.)

Some of you may suggest that Munsia does roleplay in public forums. You are mistaken. Munsia refrains from OOC on public forums (usually), but this is not the same as roleplay. Roleplaying is sticking to a defined character.

I think it's clear that when every single voter except for one believes that a punishment is needed, we have a problem.

Here's where you're falling into the trap that so many people fall into. Roleplay is roleplay is roleplay. As long as Munsia acts in the way that its credible to believe that the structure of the world is "true" then there's not a problem, even if she is a pyschotic idiot who likes to moo.



While Munsia may interpretively do this, a lot of others do the same thing. This isn't a Munsia problem, this is a problem that's spawned by the flexibility of the rules. A Seren might be guilty of crimes to a Mag due to their commune's support of Munsia, Narsrim, or Tuek, and vice versa for Daevos, Torak, Yrael, etc. You, as a player, cannot definitively judge who is innocent and who is not unless they are walking under the particular grace.



Immaturity is rampant, and is also interpretively decided. You might believe Munsia doing god knows what she likes to do with her free time is immature, but at the same time I think anyone who defends the involuntary rape of someone under the guise of RP, snuggles random people, or kills someone for calling them a "Buttface" is immature. I might disagree with you, you might disagree with me.

So, basically, you agree that Munsia is a problem but also think that others are a problem too. I'm glad we agree that Munsia has broken the rules and is indeed a problem.

As for the definition of roleplay, I use that which is provided in HELP ROLEPLAY:



It is -not- simply avoiding OOC.

I note there is no option for "Players should take it in their own hands to curb these actions in-game."

If this continued behavior of killing newbies goes on, I suppose the admin may have to step in and create a precedent that will affect all players. I'd rather not have to do this. I'd prefer players see that such actions will have consequences for everyone in the game and in an RP manner respond appropriately to make sure the behavior stops.

Perhaps I am a Pollyanna, but this is the kind of circumstance where I think players will take responsibility unto themselves and make sure it doesn't happen again. I'd like to have as few "rules" as possible, supported by enough systems in place like the Avenger and Karma, so that the admin doesn't have to arbitrate a player's actions and subjectively pass judgment. If you like a game where admins pass subjective judgments on players, there's a few very good ones I can recommend. I'd like Lusternia to be different.

If players don't do anything and by their silence condone this sort of behavior, then I can only conclude they want admin intervention. Why do you think we developed the karma system? If players don't take it upon themselves to police themselves, then we will develop systems or policies that will do it for you. If you don't want admin interventions, then you'll police yourselves. The choice is yours.

While I agree with you in general principle, Estarra, I think that that sort of policing is difficult in a commune like Serenwilde that shies away from strict laws. I could certainly see that as a viable solution if this problem were occuring in Magnagora, which I think holds a much firmer IC control over its members. Our other option, if laws do not work, is to slay the offender. Given that Munsia uses her being hunted as an excuse to prey on novices ("I thought they were coming to kill me") I don't see this as a viable option either. If there is a way for us to deal with her ICly, I think that would be preferable, but I have seen such attempts for many IC years, both in the moondancers and in Serenwilde, and yet here we are still having just as many issues.

I don't see how avoiding being OOC does anything contrary to this. By denying that a world outside of Lusternia exists are you not in fact accepting that Lusternia is the world? I'd say so. Now, whether you're acting as yourself in the world of Lusternia or someone else is irrelevant, as long as the person is in Lusternia's world.

It is plausible to believe that Munsia RP's her character like a cow from Diablo within the context of Lusternia's world, however irrational it might be on her part. This doesn't mean there won't be consequences for her, but as Estarra suggested, I don't think its our place to demand divine punishment for her, and anyone else like her right now, nor do I think its the Divine's place to punish her based on people's denouncement of her action.

I don't buy that Serenwilde can't police themselves because of their IC role. Given that logic, there's no reason that gods can't destroy players, guilds or cities at their whim--after all it is their IC role to rain fire and brimstone down on those that displease them. If the leadership of Serenwilde, or any city or guild, realizes that the consequences of a member's actions could impact the entire game, surely there is some IC action they can take. They can verbally warn, disfavour, and finally castout.

They have cast her out. Twice I believe. Guild once and city twice so far. They let her back in because she is 'active in defense of the commune'. I suppose butchery of novices is good, because the novices dont stay in Magnagora but then either quit and recreate as a Serenwilder, or leave altogether.

I was "active in the defence of the commune" too once.

Didn't count for anything when I wanted unenemied. She was let back in twice (which makes me feel bad, as all -I- ever wanted was to be unenemied, and Munsia has gotten far more than I ever did, and the general opinion of her behavior vs. mine... right).

If you're a complete pain in the butt in Aetolia, they hunt you till you issue. -That- is player policing.

I feel embarressed that I even issued her about my situation, but I'm not a fan of getting everyone together, plotting revenge for hours, just so that all my friends can kill her once, and not get status.

I'd much rather just go on with the game.

Sounds like an argument to activate karmic curses soon.