Proper Pronouns

by Falasin

Back to Chronicles of the Basin.

Falasin2005-04-19 19:04:16
I've been fiddling around with something I may want to submit in a Bardic contest and I was wondering if could get some people's opinion on a topic. The story would involve at one point or another a Vernal Goddess refering back to before She ascended to Godhood. In this case would She be using My/Mine and such since at the time of the telling She is indeed a Goddess, or would she use my/mine and such because she's speaking about a period while She was still mortal.
Falasin2005-04-19 21:16:01
Come on, no one?
Terenas2005-04-19 21:34:53
Since no one posted...who the heck cares if it is my or My! They are not going to award you based on something so trivial. doh.gif
Daganev2005-04-19 21:36:31
gods always use caps no matter what.
Falasin2005-04-19 21:59:40
QUOTE(terenas @ Apr 19 2005, 09:34 PM)
Since no one posted...who the heck cares if it is my or My! They are not going to award you based on something so trivial.  doh.gif
102779


Oh, I didn't realize I said that I thought they should. It's a simple mechanics question. Answer the question or don't; I'm not intrested your assumptions about why I asked.
Falasin2005-04-19 22:00:56
QUOTE(daganev @ Apr 19 2005, 09:36 PM)
gods always use caps no matter what.
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You use caps when refering to a God, but this isn't refering to a God, it's refering to a mortal that will later be a God, and the person who is saying it knows it.
Falasin2005-04-19 22:03:02
Looking at the histories they used lowercase even after the Vernal God had ascended, which dosen't really make sense.

EDIT: Triple post, wheee!
Lyren2005-04-20 02:35:34
It could be that Vernals don't get the same status as Elders, in terms of the pronoun capitalization?
Falasin2005-04-20 18:40:32
I thought that too, but from what little history I can get about the Elders it isn't used either. I think they just didn't include it at all in the histories. Well, at least in the general ones such as HELP GODS, it's used in the specific files on Elder gods.
Unknown2005-04-21 10:03:24
I think about the caps more as a matter of formality.

Plenty of divine don't bother with the caps in everyday conversation, especially the cool ones tongue.gif

And divine can do anything They please anyway, so I don't think it'd be out of role to make one talk about their mortal background using lowercase pronouns. Who's gonna stop them, the Uber God of Spelling Nazis?
Unknown2005-04-21 11:03:01
Says are interpretive and they should always be written as someone else will hear them. For example, someone speaking with a horrid accent wouldn't be very confused by his own speaking and would see it as clear as if someone was speaking to him in proper lusternian. On the other hand, many people will be utterly baffled by what he is saying.

Capitals are open to interpretation in the same way, they are a token of respect to a being that has infinitely more knowledge, wisdom power and survivability then any mortal will most likely attain even if they achieve godhood. For this purpose, they use the capitals and think of the God in capitals, I doubt any god would speak or write about Themselves with capitals, it is something that is interpreted that way by the person hearing it, who gives a capital to the meaning of the word that refers to the God in question. For the god, this is something that goes automatically and unconscious, He or She would not consciously start speaking about Himself in capitals, yet, since those hearing it perceive the God in this way gods put the capitals in Their says and writings.

In short: says should always be written as someone else would hear and interpret it.


Hajamin2005-04-21 12:40:46
It's actually quiet hard to remember to use My/Me/etc all the time... One thing Lisaera and I were talking about yesturday was, if I as a God say "we" refering to Myself and a mortal(group of mortals) do I use "We" because there is a God in the group, or do I use "we" because there are mortals in the group? blink.gif
Unknown2005-04-21 19:22:31
Easy. W/we. Indicates that You as a divine are there, but there's us pesky mortals around too.
Shiri2005-04-21 19:27:03
QUOTE(Hajamin @ Apr 21 2005, 01:40 PM)
It's actually quiet hard to remember to use My/Me/etc all the time... One thing Lisaera and I were talking about yesturday was, if I as a God say "we" refering to Myself and a mortal(group of mortals) do I use "We" because there is a God in the group, or do I use "we" because there are mortals in the group? blink.gif
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Now, I'm making a lot of assumptions about how the French language developed here, so I'm sure some linguist can correct me if I'm wrong, but as historically men were considered superior to women, and the French use the masculine gender for pluralised things as opposed to feminine ones, I would say to use "We," as the group contains a Divine.

Whether that works differently in other languages with genders, I have no idea, but there you are.
Lyren2005-04-22 02:46:03
In Spanish, I believe, if you're talking about a group of all girls, you say "ellas" - but if even one boy is in the mix, it turns to "ellos".
Shiri2005-04-22 02:54:21
Yeah, that's the sort of thing I'm talking about, only I couldn't call up any examples, 'cause it took me like 5 months to forget 5 years of French.
Unknown2005-04-22 05:39:11
This is a subject of discussion that Kidaen and I had a while back, though my viewpoint on it was different. Generally I will only capitalize something when, in example, god's descriptions are always seen from someone else's point of view and so they should be capitalized, god's help files are written by the scribes, and should not look as though the god wrote it themselves in my opinion, so to avoid being tacky use capitals as well.

Now in role the only person Lacostian will address in capitals is Estarra, for She is beyond even the Elders, and I will only kneel to Her or when I speak of the group, or the Others. If I'm speaking about myself to someone, I never use Me, but as Kidaen pointed out it is how they would hear it, so eh.. technicalities..
Sylphas2005-04-22 05:44:43
Elles sont froid.
They are cold.

Un garcon! Maintenant, ils sont tres froid.
A boy! Now, they are really cold.

French example.
Daganev2005-04-22 07:38:26
I do not beleive that male dominance in language has anything to do with social structure, and which is more 'superior'

Even matriarchical societies have a male dominant language...

as someone said in my Arts class.. Why would you make a female robot except for making it stand out as being a female?

I think in a group of people a god would use we instead of We, unless the mortals where his chosen ones and had special meaning.
Xenthos2005-04-22 20:23:11
But why would you make a male robot, either? Waste of parts and pieces to make it stand out as male- just make it gender-neutral.