Let' get some real feedback. I really like Gwylifar's idea and I think the Archways are VERY exploitable. I see Estarra's intent but it was a bit to rash of a solution. If she really wishes to fix the cudgeling problem I would suggest just making it impossible to attack across territories so the tactic isn't completely destroyed but stops it on Faethorn.

Now if I could remember Gwylifar's idea....

I just assume it's the VERY long post in the other thread. The bit I read sounded rather good, maybe I'll read the rest sometimes.

So, anyway I am voting to take out archways and to institute Gwylifars Idea.

Archways fix problems with demenses as well. And there allready is a cycle.

Could someone please repost what Gwylifar's cycle idea is/was? Also, I cast my vote for returning it to the way it was.

If anything, I think the change that should be made is that the Ethereal plane shouldn't be demesne'able by Geomancers/Aquamancers, just like their respective planes are protected.

Queen Maeve is sick of all the noise, all the blood, and all the interlopers. So she declares one day that things are going to change. "I have decided that I will grant my blessing to Mother Night or Mother Moon for a longer time, so I can better come to understand the ramifications, before I open myself to reconsider my decision." (Does Maeve speak in the royal "we"?) "For seven times seven times seven days shall I follow one path, contemplating in peace. My knights will defend the peace; any within my lands who disturb the peace by attacking any of my citizens will be called our enemy, and my knights will grant them no mercy. During this time, you may make such agreements with my citizens as they see fit, luring them with honeycakes to this side or that, provided none are harmed, and by this action, your Trees of Power may be made stronger. But no champions will arise from this act.

"When my contemplations are concluded, I will so decree that I am prepared to consider again the question. I will forget all enemies of my realm, so that all may prosecute their pursuits of my favor afresh. Then may you serve the wishes of your avatars without the interference of my knights, and raise your champions. Mother Night will wish my citizens taken to her through the portal of death, which will raise the dark champions; while Mother Moon will wish them taken by sweet charms, whcih will raise the silver ladies. For seven times seven days will I allow this trial, during which I will judge the merit of effort in both sides. At the end of seven times seven days will the champions clash, as they have before, and then begins another time of peace, another turn of the wheel, for me to contemplate the results of the struggle."

Okay, I couldn't resist doing that in a sort of in-character way, and as I have yet to learn much of anything about the sceptre part of the quest, I didn't account for that, but that's my idea for how the time could be broken up into raiding-time and quiet-time without eliminating the power quest, but without the power quest being a war.

I thought about making it threes. Mother Moon certainly has her threes (mother, maiden, and crone), but she doesn't play it up anywhere near as much as Mother Night does. I decided sevens was more unlikely to be mistaken for favoritism... and it added up to a good period (about two days of "in play" and then two weeks off). But really, it was just an example. I went with that to demonstrate how it could be kind of mystical, and also be something that didn't align with game years or real world times or days so no one got an advantage based on who's online at certain times, seasons of the year, phases of the moon, or what-not. But mostly it just seemed kind of fae to word it that way.

3x3x3 and 3x3 means a total cycle of 36 hours, 9 of which are spent in battle. That seems a little too high a ratio of conflict to off-conflict. Plus, because two cycles would be exactly three RL days, the times would keep repeating and there'd be an advantage to whichever side had people who were online more at those recurring times. On the upside, it's just off a moon cycle, so it'd precess through the lunar cycle nicely.

I still think the best idea offered, besides returning it to how it was, is to just make Backwards Avenue and Twisting Paths Seren and Glom territory, respectively. No cudgeling more than one room unless you enter their forest.

I love Gwylifar's idea for it's roleplay perspective, and also for the toning down the conflict to a managable level...yeah there'll be battle, but not endless, mind-numbing amounts of it.

We're talking about two different problems here, the quantity of fighting (that's what my "cycles" thing is about) and the borders problem (if it's even a problem at all -- personally I think there's a small problem there but it's not the one everyone's discussing, and not big enough to be worth any significant changes like archways). The poll lets you vote on both at once, which is good, but don't get confused and think they're two approaches to one problem, rather than two separate problems.

I fullheartedly agree, return it to what it was and make Backwards Avenue seren territory and Twisting Paths Glom territory. Complexity can be nice sometimes, but we really shouldn't turn Lusternia into one giant puzzle.

When good gameplay is maintained in both cases, simplicity > complexity.

There already is a cyle that I don't think people are aware of given that the quest really hasn't been performed much. For instance, it's impossible to complete the sceptre quest at this stage as its in its truly neutral state (should be able to figure it out by clues given by the denizens), which will last some time. It is only after the next battle (which again clues should be given by the denizens) when it's possible for the winner to create the sceptre. That state stays in place for some time (either moon/night mode) until the next battle. Again, I have a feeling many just don't understand the cycle for this quest which is and has always been, strangely enough, similar to Gwylifar's idea.

Anyway, for the archways, one of the reasons I like the idea was because this was actually how I had once envisioned the ethereal design (main Faethorn area connected by archways to the commune ethereal forests), probably about a year ago. This idea was lost or forgotten during building because it was a hectic time and I wasn't the person who ultimately built the ethereal. Once I heard Daganev suggest it, I was immediately reminded of this. I submit if this was how it was from Day 1, no one would even think about changing it.

Anyway, I want to give some time to see how the quest and the archways work before jumping to any conclusions.

Right:

3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
Visaeris steps out of a flowering archway.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
Visaeris steps into an archway of thorns and disappears.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
Visaeris steps out of a flowering archway.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
Bowing her head and crossing her arms, a celestial archangel sends a bolt of
topaz light at Visaeris, which sinks deep into his skull and makes him reel
backwards.
Bowing her head and crossing her arms, a celestial archangel sends a bolt of
topaz light at Visaeris, which sinks deep into his skull and makes him reel
backwards.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
You see Visaeris Mae'loch yell, "Nightwolf smells like a goat!"
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-shieldstun visaeris
shieldstun visaeris
Visaeris steps into an archway of thorns and disappears.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
You cannot see that being here.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
Visaeris steps out of a flowering archway.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
Your aura of weapons rebounding disappears.
Your action causes the nearly invisible magical shield around you to fade away.
You swing a winged celestial shield of heraldic bearing with all your might,
smashing it into the head of Visaeris with a resounding ring.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-smoke pipe82736
You take a long drag off your pipe.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
Klia slams his forehead into the skull of Visaeris, who reels backwards and is
stunned by the blow.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-look
Twisting pathway into the tainted mists. (archway)
The corrosiveness of the taint sickens the land. The trees here seem to cower
in a subdued display almost hiding from the light that consistently shines from
above. The boles of trees suddenly twist as if unseen grief mires their visage
in unbearable sorrow. The border thus created between the realm of Faethorn and
this southern area is nearly immediate with no forewarning that the forested
away is giving way to the darkness. A sigil in the shape of a small,
rectangular monolith is on the ground. A white marble gravestone stands vigil
here, memorializing the death of some poor soul. The fossilized remains of
Laysus are here. An archway of thorns rises up from the ground. A magnificent
white unicorn stands here in silence, illuminating her surroundings with a
gentle silver glow. Crackling with blue lightning, the Handmaiden of Shakiniel
hovers in the air here. Limned with holy fire, a celestial archangel stands
loftily on a floating cloud, regarding you with her sympathetic eyes of light.
Klia is here. He wields a deadly platinum spiritual totem broadsword in his
left hand and a exquisitely crafted draconic broadsword in his right. Visaeris
Mae'loch is here. He wields an ethereal flail of intricate hues in his left
hand and an insidious draconic flail in his right.
You see exits leading northeast and northwest.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
Visaeris steps into an archway of thorns and disappears.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-
You have recovered balance on your left arm.
3926h, 2816m, 3482e, 10p exk-


At least put eq on it like a transverse. Or make it blockable. Or take a few seconds to travel through, like a painting.

I have an idea. How about we remove the ability from Aquamancers and Geomancers to demesne on Ethereal?


Okay, it was worth a try...

So you can jump blindly into a group of fighters and a demesne while off eq. Sure. It's so much easier to just disfavour Visaeris until he stops being a whiny bitch.

PLEASE let us at least glance through the archways. If I get that, I won't whine about them anymore, even with a massive eq loss. *beg*

Well, I'm still waffling about the archways, but I have to admit, it makes sense to be able to glance through one, somehow. That said, I don't know how hard it would be to code something like that. Perhaps something intermediate, like, if you TOUCH it, you get a description of what's beyond it?

I wouldn't mind really but it would be a hard thing to code (so don't expect it anytime soon as we're in the middle of other projects). But, remember, you'd be able to glance through ANY special exit that you would normally ENTER through (like pits in Nil, columns of flame on Celestia, whirlpools on
water plane, etc.) so I'm not sure if its very logical. To make it so ONLY the archways can be glanced through would just making coding it that much more of a job. Touching wouldn't really work as it may be easy to see the room description on the other side, you wouldn't see anyone who was in it (which is probably not what you want).

Knight accuracy upgrade?

Why does nobody ever believe me in these things?

I agree with Amaru there, that was one of the concerns I Tried to voice before and sure enough its being abused already

Keep it as it is and wait and see hwo it plays out a bit.

*whistle* The only thing i want changed on Ethereal, is that the type of Forest is changed so the Hartstone cant automatically meld it without having to force forest? it first, well while it is under Nights Control or it is Neutral an likewise for when it's under Moons Control.