The warrior reworking has made us look at the balance of the races. I've spent over ten hours going over the races, comparing them, using formulas to try to get an idea of how they stack as either warriors or spellcasters or both. Anyway, I've cleverly devised an approach to balance the races but when we looked at it the majority of races would receive hefty upgrades, a few races would receive downgrades, and a few races would stay about the same. There is some concern raised over the need for such drastic changes and concern about what reactions the players have if this plan would go into effect

So the question arises: Do we need such a major overhaul of the races (which I frankly want to do but am reserving judgment) or would you prefer just to see small tweaks? I'd like your opinions on what races you think definitely need upgrades or downgrades and your reasons why. I'm not looking for what specific upgrades you think a race needs (as that's already generally laid out) but just a general sense of your thoughts.

I think a major overhaul is a good thing. Races like Orclach and Trill are really nice for rp for their rich background but there are hardly any around because they are just inferior compared with other races like Brood Viscanti or Dracnari.

As for players getting upset with drastic changes, just give everyone free reincarnation and it will shut them up.

Furrikin need upgrades.
Trill need upgrades.
Lucidian need upgrades.
Viscanti I feel need downgrades, but this may not be important with knighthood changes.
Elfen, Merian are fine. Faeling need downgrades when specialised, again this may not matter depending on how knighthood changes go.
Tae'dae need upgrades, so do Igasho, but knighthood changes.
Dracnari, downgrades.
Krokani, Orclach, upgrades.
Aslaran, upgrades.
Mugwump, don't know.
Dwarf, downgrades.
Loboshigaru, fine.
Taurian, upgrades.
Human, upgrades.

I'm glad a racial reworking is in order. Furrikin have sucked for so long!

Drastic changes I think are fine. Then again, drastic is subjective.

So many races need changes that it's probably best to just do an overhaul. Tweaking everything enough to make it balanced would probably amount to the same thing anyway.

Quite aside from Faelings, I agree a major overhaul in general is seeming more and more appealing, just going by the number of different racial threads on these forums. There are quite a few relatively weak races, and quite a few obviously better ones.

I think a broad change would be nice (and in terms of my race I doubt it can get worse), especially if you're going to rebalance experience penalties and advantages to give a more level playing field.

If everyone gets an extra reincarnation, and a small bit of feedback is invited on the major changes before they go in, I don't see how the reactions will be too severe.

I don't see why Dracnari need downgrades. I disagree with that. (Yes, I'm one of them ). Same goes for Viscanti.

I'd say if these changes are well thought out and you went through calculations and such and are sure it'll balance things, go for it (and give everyone one free reincarnation, it's a fair thing to do).

Then again, I'm a bit afraid of what might come out of this.

Dracnari don't need downgrades, they need upgrades!!

I think a overhaul is needed, though of course I'm hoping that Viscanti isnt one of the races that receive downgrades. Since I think we already suffer significantly because of our sip penalty, large size, and for our warriors low int/dex.

Change it all, they can't get any more unbalanced. But on the offhand, some races should be stronger than others, because it would make no sense to have a Furrikin kill a Krokani, though I guess having fun is more important than realism.

So I still think you should change it, though I haven't been around long enough to qualify on answeing this.

It will be inevitable that some will rejoice and some cry. But then is it possible to please everyone? Like Elyrn, faelings will never be good enough in his eyes.

But I think what Shiri said is quite fair, even though I am a dracnari myself.

Well they're gonna get a specialization some day. Hopefully.


It's pretty much the same with Dracnari. Sip penalty sucks.

Personally, I'd just like Orchlach and Trill and Lucidian and.. yeah, them, upgraded, the rest left alone. Or, make us all able to choose whatever the hell race we want, still get guild specific changes, but be able to do various quests to "build" the character. Like, you can get, say, 15 stat points that you could use to purchase upgrades for advantages, and stat points? *shrug*

I agree a major overhaul is warranted. I think the races are in crazy disbalance now, and many of the races probably aren't even played. If you have some crazy-smart way of comparing and balancing them that would make it a choice that a reasonable player can make on RP and fun purposes without intentionally crippling themselves, I trust you to do it.

I think tweaks in these scenarios don't work, because you're changing skills at the same time, and (for example) we're dealing with a drastically different knight situation than we were when the races were designed.

I agree also with the sentiment that a free reincarnation fixes MOST of the concerns of players. That being said, there are always some complaints that have some validity...I was a... in Achaea when the first round of HUGE racial changes went in and everyone got a reincarnation. Problem was, they'd ruined holocaust and reduced the intelligence of a supposedly 'strong magic race' so it removed a desire from many magi to play them. And we ALL went dwarf. And then they changed diamondskin. And we ALL went grook. Meh. Just do a better job than they did (and you always do!!!) and we'll love you more than we hate you.

Heck, this might be the most popular thing you could do to make people happy.

Do it.

I think an overhaul would be good.

But elevations/burrowing need fixing first

One thing that, in general, should be done.. Remove all exp penalties, keep human exp bonus. Achaea did this a long whie back and it was nice. Balance races around their statistical merits, don't punish people with making exping even more boring/time consuming.

And one other thing that really needs to happen. If you do decide to revamp races, hold off on the knighthood upgrade and let us get in there and test it some more. I really want the warrior changes but if there are "drastic revamps" in the race changes, they need to be retested.

When EXP penalties are dropped, I expect to see Viscanti upgraded then. >.>

In all seriousness though....Faeling - give them level TWO balance instead of three.

For Trill, take away the EXP penalty until they have a specialization, or, make it so they have a short short short recovery time for flying, since that is the only bonus they really get.

As for Furrikin, give them the HAIRBALL emote.

Viscanti need upgrades, and Furrikin need an emote.

Wow, I LOVE your objectivity. (Please be joking. )

I am all for the new changes, but it would be nice to get a free reincarnation too because i know i did not go some races that i wanted to just because they were so unbalanced compared to the other races

Only if the EXP penalties are taken away, and at least for guardian/mages...

And the Emote is SERIOUS business!