In many ways this is a very selfish reason for why I don't want the Glomdoring to arrive. What I mean is that my character believes fully that he serves the fae because they are the spiritual heart of nature. Should it be proved that in fact nature flourishes and evolves alongside the taint, then so must the fae, and thus there is no reason we should protect them from it, nor should we have any reason for disliking the cities. You suggest that my character should willingly believe a falsehood, when presented with great evidence to the contrary. I am happy to slant the perception Elryn uses, but I don't think I can ignore or overlook such things.
22126

Also, I believe a Glomdoring tainted commune would not only lock Serenwilde and itself into an identical (and unoriginal) struggle like Celest and Magnagora, it would greatly reinforce the alliance between Celest and Serenwilde (as anti-taint) and Magnagora and Glomdoring (as pro-taint). Again, it would act to destroy Serenwilde's unique identity. Admittedly, we haven't exactly got it under control ourselves yet, but I believe this would force us both subtly and overtly to abandon our anti-city stance.
21785

I don't know if it was set up one way or the other, but aside from the quests and fallen tower, Glomdoring also seems to me to be set up for moderate bashing. Putting in a commune would stop that function, wouldn't it?
10604

I have to agree here. I think a Glomdoring 'commune' would be an awful outcome, because of a couple of things.

As it is now, the only way a Glomdoring version of the wiccan archetype could work with fae is if they were somehow enslaved against their will. They simply can't be mutated like the other creatures were, the histories say as much. If they are enslaved, imagine the reaction of the other (possibly two) wiccan guilds charged with protecting all fae...

Secondly, a Glomdoring commune would be the total antithesis of Serenwilde, and both sides would have little choice but to work against the other. With equal access to the Ethereal plane, Faethorn would quickly descend into limitless violence as one side attacks the other, and then the reverse, and it would easily spill into the heart of both communes. Even the two cities have quite separate planes to protect.

The only realistic outcome I can foresee is that either the disciples of crow become a new organization that is non-forestal (or perhaps semi-forestal - a warrior, druid/mage and new guardian archetype that is similar to wicca but with creatures other than fae), or the Glomdoring is restored to the Gloriana in some measure, and they stay 'dark' but not undead and corrupted.

I'd prefer a more interesting dynamic to work with than a commune that we can't help but hate. Let's see... a perversion of everything we revere, and an affront to our spirits - well, diplomacy is going to go down well. Conflict is great, but not something as absolute as that. :roll:
9936

Er, zombies and other undead horrors form the greater part of the Glomdoring now, and they certainly -aren't- a part of Nature. There is no growth or renewal in that 'forest', it is pretty much a dead husk, at least in every sense I can tell.

I agree that death and cruelty are a part of the natural process, but it is life that drives them. Without the return of life, or even worse, with further unnatural animation in death... Glomdoring is not going to be a fun little evil rival commune. It remains the polar opposite of everything the Seren is. Including natural.
4446

But I do want to say that if Glomdoring returns (as it is now) I think it will screw with our idealogies like nothing before. The evil 'forest' -will- ally with Magnagora, there is no reason not to, aside from a single tiny tiff in the past which we all know players will forget if theres opportunity to be had. It will force Serenwilde to ally with Celest and turn us into a forest of Light. Why? Because Life is directly opposed to Taint, we will be opposed to both Magnagora and Glomdoring, but we only have history to drive us apart from Celest. Similarly, the Light is supposedly directly against Taint, and thus they will be opposed to both Magnagora and Glomdoring. Magnagora and Glomdoring, as tainted entities, will do anything to spread their taint and survive intact, and thus they will oppose the two non-tainted organizations, but only minor politics separate them from each other. It will polarize Lusternia and destroy any intricacies of idealogy. Serenwilde will have no choice but to ally with Celest or be utterly dominated by the two evil powers. Yes, having forestal abilities without any morality to hinder their use I'm sure will be fun, but there is a wider perspective to consider
45115

Faelings will never be one of the specialization races. It just wouldn't make a lot of sense. They are born from Elfen and Fae, and the most numerous place in which that naturally would occur is mystical Serenwilde. I assume earthy Ackleberry is more populated by furrikin/tae'dae than Elfen, and any form of tainted Glomdoring (if the worst comes to pass) won't involve fae.
51923

It also brings into question the commune vs city conflict. Serenwilde is against the cities (and this admittedly is only my interpretation) because they caused the taint, which hurt communes, forests, and nature spirits. A smaller reason they distrust cities is because they have different values to a commune, for one they consider cities obsessed with seeking power. Now, lets assume that a tainted Glomdoring organization arrives. They might even call themselves a 'commune'. Suddenly, we have one of the communes with the same values as a city, ie expansion of taint and using it to gain as much power as they can, and a major supporter of the taint. They also will be against Nature and the nature spirits that supposedly define a commune.

Oops, suddenly the difference between commune and city really doesn't exist any more. (This could be circumvented in some parts by calling a tainted Glomdoring something other than a commune, but I doubt that would happen).

Then there is the Ethereal plane, which will descend into a bloodbath as fae are killed wantonly by both sides (as I assume there will be a reflection of the Moon Avatar quest).
83058

On a different note, I think I have an analogy for why I don't want to see a Glomdoring 'commune'.

Imagine that there is a new city being planned. It will be utterly tainted and corrupted, but it will follow the Light. Not quite the same Light that Celest follows, but they shall draw on Celestial powers (some infused with taint magic), and worship the Supernals. They will view the taint as the tool of enlightenment with which they can spread their version of the Light across the world.

The guardians of the city will discover a new sort of angel, dark and brooding and twisted, but still a celestial being under the protection of the Supernals. In fact, the Supernals will support this new tainted city equally because they follow the Light, apart from one or two that will have purely personal objections to it. These one or two will be most closely allied with Celest.

Now that Light has been shown to get along just fine with the Taint, and most of their own deities have no problem with it, where would this leave Celest?

Screwed.
88280

Taint by its very definition ruins things. Changes them into some horrible demonic unnatural form.
Hence, Taint + Nature = Demonic, ruined Nature.

You can't just say, well, its still nature - its just refitted and improved. You can't say Glomdoring proves Taint is part of Nature without also saying Nil proves Taint is part of the Light.
88630

Of course, but when Magnagora became tainted, it didn't continue to follow the light.

When Nil became tainted, it didn't continue to follow the (variant of) the Light.

When rituals become tainted, they don't continue to draw on celestial powers.

When normal races become tainted, they don't continue to identify with their original race, they become something new, Viscanti.

When Glomdoring becomes tainted, why the hell should it continue to follow nature?
90646

Ok, Faelings would be as appropriate for Glomdoring as they are for Magnagora.

As for Elfen...

The Aftermath of the Divine Wars:Nature held its own fragile consciousness, but it was fragmented and dying, having been devastated by the divine wars. Further, those Soulless Gods who were trapped within the earth itself were poisoning these spirits of nature. The elfen, closest to the forests, first noticed this cruel fate.

Note the elfen are in tune with the forests.  This paragraph also illustrates how they felt about the poisoning of the spirits of nature by the soulless gods (ie, an earlier version of the taint?). It doesn't say Serenwilde was a bit miffed that nature was outgrowing them.  It says NATURE WAS DYING.

Even if you don't accept the poisoning mentioned here as equivalent to the taint, you have to accept that spirits of nature getting sick = nature dying.  What hurts the fae?  TAINT!!!
90679

You greet Queen Maeve of the Fae with a sincere smile.
Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "Faethorn stands neutral, taking no sides."

You greet Queen Maeve of the Fae with a sincere smile.
Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "Be welcome in Faethorn, but know we are neutral
to your conflicts."

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "Your Highness, how can You stand neutral?"

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "Your people have fought a long and bloody
war against the Taint, and You have kept Faethorn safe from its clutches."

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "Now You no longer care?"

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "All within the forest are under my domain... I
have not truly fought the taint, I have merely fought for the safety of my
realm."

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "Yet no Fae has been allowed within the
tainted forest, for memory of what was done to them there."

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "Why would You consider reversing Your
decision?"

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "The taint is just as much a part of me as the
purity you see in the Serenwilde... now that the fae and Glomdoring spirits
have awakened, they have reminded me that I reign over them all."

Opening your mouth wide, you gape in wonder.

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "The taint... is a part of You?"

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "I had forgotten much when the Glomdoring spirits
went to sleep."

You say, "WENT TO SLEEP?"

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "But I govern all the fae, each and every one."

You have emoted: Elryn takes a breath, and calms himself again.

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "Your Highness, They were corrupted and
twisted."

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "They are all my fae."

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "They are still Spirits of Nature, then?"

Laeroc, the Queen's Consort smiles gently towards his Queen.

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "The destruction of the Ravenwood sent them
fleeing, for they had no energy to exist within the material realm."

You say, "But they still exist as Spirits of Nature?"

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "Have you not seen them?"

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "If you had seen them, you would realize the
answer to your own question, of course they are spirits of nature."

You say, "Then all these years, we have been wrong."

You say, "We should not have blamed the cities for anything."

Queen Maeve of the Fae says, "I have no idea, I merely concern myself with the
fae."

You say, "They didn't destroy the communes or harm the Fae, they simply changed
them."

You say, "White Hart also must be unaware of Your discovery."

You say to Laeroc, the Queen's Consort, "Are you certain there has been no...
trouble, within the mind of the Queen?"

Laeroc, the Queen's Consort says, "She is quite fine, she has just returned to
her normal self."

You say, "Then all our efforts have been for naught."

You say, "Our entire commune is founded upon a lie."

You slump down dejectedly.

You say, "I simply cannot understand how such a monumental error could have
been made."

You say, "It goes back to blessed Ellindel, then."

Laeroc, the Queen's Consort says, "It is not my concern, only the happiness of
my Queen."

You say, "She should not have attempted to 'heal' your people."

You say, "Because they were fine."

You say, "One more thing then... the Fae that are taken to the Glomdoring..."

You say to Queen Maeve of the Fae, "Are they bound against their will?"

Laeroc, the Queen's Consort says, "The will of the fae is neutrality, they will
flow or go as they please."

You say, "Neutrality to what?"

You tilt your head and listen intently to Laeroc, the Queen's Consort.

You say to Laeroc, the Queen's Consort, "M'lord?"

You say to Laeroc, the Queen's Consort, "The Fae are neutral with regards to
what?"

You tell Laeroc, the Queen's Consort, "Taint?"

Laeroc, the Queen's Consort says, "What about it?"

You say to Laeroc, the Queen's Consort, "Er, Taint?"

You say to Laeroc, the Queen's Consort, "I seek to understand what you mean by
the will of the Fae is neutrality."

Laeroc, the Queen's Consort says, "The will of the fae is the fae's will, we
stand neutral for we are all fae."

You say to Laeroc, the Queen's Consort, "Yes, but do you mean you stand neutral
to Taint."

Laeroc, the Queen's Consort says, "The tainted fae are fae just as are the
normal fae, they are all fae... you tired me with these questions."

You say, "Very well, I apologise... m'lord, and Highness."

With a flourish of your arm, you bow deeply.
100064

However, now we are told that in fact tainted fae are perfectly fine. Ellindel did not heal the fae, she was just being selfish and forcing an unwanted change. Every action of the communes after the release of Kethuru's taint was ignorant and wrong. We should not blame the cities for the taint, only for revealing our own stupidity and fear of the unknown. The Great Spirits that told Ackleberry how to remove itself from existence were ignorant in doing so. The wars that Faethorn fought against the spread of the taint into Faethorn were pointless and stupid.

This has no effect upon the established ethos of the Glomdoring, EXCEPT to justify their validity as a nature-based organization in the eyes of the Serenwilde. While it doesn't change Glomdoring's role or attitude, it does change the way in which Serenwilde must view it.

My concern is that Taint and Nature should necessarily be at odds with each other, particularly as it relates to the Fae. Those who wish to use the powers of the taint upon nature must embrace the philosophy that it implies, that they seek the "rot and ruin" of the living forests. To say that they are simply a different aspect of Nature inherently polarises the aspect of the Seren to be 'good' and 'light' and 'happy'. It devalues the myth of Ellindel and the founding of the Serenwilde upon certain values. It reduces our conflict with all other organizations to minor points of political difference.
100234

Now, to me that indicates that Faelings were always going to be the secondary race of the communes, and they were suited to communes plural. (As an aside, I would have thought the 'elfen communes' also implied that all three communes had elfen as the specialization race, but lets not go there.) As Serenwilde is the most fae-obsessed of the three communes, I also thought they would be wonderful in Serenwilde. No more wonderful than any other commune, but definitely no less. That has changed. If you can find somewhere in the histories that suggest differently, please tell me.

Now, change is fine, but the problem with this particular change is that only a single polarity of forestal viewpoint gets the advantage. Had a new shadowfae race emerged, fine, because they would not have ultimately left regular faelings as unspecialized and thus saddled with a balancing 'advantage' that doesn't apply at all to us.

Could I change and be a Glomdoring faeling to get the advantages? Sure. But I don't enjoy playing those sort of characters at all. The level of real-world evil that Serenwilde has the potential to display I personally can handle. But the extreme sadism of Magnagora/Glomdoring is something I find most unpleasant to take on.

These shadow specializations mean that if you want to get the most out of your Faeling character, you should choose that commune, and all the philosophy that goes along with it. I didn't choose this beautifully crafted race to be a part of a commune that supports disease, rot and ruin, however much that may be internally justified.
108060

I don't want Serenwilde Faeling to get a specialization. As I keep saying, I wish Faeling had not had any specializations at all, and Glomdoring either had a new race, or a different branch of Elfen specialization so that Faelings were equally viable in all communes. That is obviously not going to happen now, and I have accepted the bizarre change that Faelings are now Glomdoring's race.

What I don't want to see, and of course I feel this way because I have invested in a Faeling character, is Serenwilde/Ackleberry Faelings clearly less suited to their environment than Glomdoring Faelings.

This is not a matter of 'owning' the race, or wanting to keep everything for Serenwilde. Its a matter of not having the race mutated into a totally different concept that originally envisaged.

I still think if people actually think through an analogy, they'll understand. For instance, we could say that Orclach (which were viewed almost as subpar as Faelings) will specialize in Celest, as they shrug off their orcish manner and become Celestial Orclach - much more graceful and beautiful than others of their race, physically smaller and not as thick-skinned, but far more wise and nimble. The Supernals will grant them blessings as they become attuned to Light and the forces of life, and fiercely resistant to the taint. Both warrior and mage/guardian specializations will retain the essential combat advantages of regular Orclach, but very much improved, as the blessings of the Supernals infuses Celestial Orclach with greater power.

Now, this is fair enough, there were orclach throughout the empire (ie, in Old Celest) before the taint wars and there have always been a group of orclach who felt betrayed by it. The problem, as with the Faeling change, is that the specializations aren't really Orclach anymore. How will the loyal Orclach Ur'guard characters feel, who until this change were following the path most consistent with their racial history? Should they be told to 'get over it' and move to celest if they want their much needed upgrades? After all, they aren't any worse off than they were before and they should not have expected to get any better. The original race concept has changed, deal with it?
116106

A few things bug me.  First, the specialization.  Elfen were the splinters of Elfenohoala or whatever - She was the one whom Awoken Night.  Lisaera, instead, awoken Moon.  As well, Faelings call Lisaera "Mother".  Why do Elfen specialize in a faeling commune, and faeling in an elfen commune?  Doesn't make sense to me.

That said, back to specialization.  Where did you get that ALL three were Elfen specializations?  Ackleberry was so Tae'dae and Furrikin.  Serenwilde seems to me to have been mostly Faeling and Elfen.  Gloriana was all Elfen.  Mostly because of the aforementioned link to Night.  Gloriana specialized Elfen - but why would Glom have to?  Not that I agree with our current specialization race.

Elfenehoala awoke Night long before she became a Great Spirit and even longer before she became tainted. Night now is very different to Night then. Since when do faelings call Me "Mother"? I've never noticed such.

Gloriana was all elfen? I don't remember seeing that anywhere in the histories, I find it more likely that the faelings in Gloriana fled to Faethorn and Serenwilde when the taint came.

Elryn has always had very well-founded opinions on Nature. The majority of his opinions are based on the assumption that the Taint disrupts the Natural order, therefore that Nature cannot exist alongside Taint.