Moving this comment I made in the Astral thread to here as well since I think it's a problem worth bringing up. I know it's been broke up in the past also but now I think the problem is becoming more and more important..

I think the better thing to do than screwing over Astral is to address some of the sources of the problem that created this. Economy, ok lower the gold. Simple enough option, yes? Outside that.. Demi-Gods/Titans. I think it's been noted several times peoples beliefs on these things that they're overpowered and will eventually throw off balance. I agree with this because I don't like the idea of Lv 100 being some HUGE jump in power so large no mortal could hurt you. Personally I love the fact you can be an Avatar, I love the fact you can customize your shout, I love the fact you're actually considered A Demi-God, I love all the RP implications of this but all the huge stat bonuses and such.. eh not so much. I'd get Lv 100 just for the RP stuff more than the stats, thats my own personal feeligns and I think the way it should be.. Imperian did this and it didnt stop anyone from working on Level 100, no one said Psh its not worth it I dont gain uber stats and insanity, they said Man I like those RP possibilities I'm going to work toward it.

Some of their skills are ok.. being able to travel to the heavens I can live with.. Divine fire.. thats cool but I think it should be more limited than invulnerability, could easily be toned down and used nicely. Thunderclap? Why? Huge Stats? Once again.. Why? We didn't add in stat modifying artifacts on this MUD for a reason didn't we? The Regen stuff.. it could be acceptable the extra regen isn't THAT insane and it is workable.. I think Demi-gods/Titans should be toned down and toned down -now- before more make it and the change makes even bigger waves. I would like to see Lusternia boaster more RP over uber power gaming without nerfing combat either. This is attainable in my eyes with toning down these Demi-gods before things get nuts.

I don't like the idea of Divine fire for Avatars.
I guess it's hard to create something for them that's not really overpowered but also rewarding and worth striving for...

As I have said in the other thread, Divine Fire along with the rest of the demigod abilities is extremely taxing. It has a high essence cost therefore, you would only see it when it was absolutely necessary. Furthermore, Aesyra was beaten in combat by Murphy and Ixion. She was far from unkillable.

I'd also like to add that I think Syrienne is doing a good job trying to seek out of the root of the problem and not settling for a knee jerk like some others. However, I feel her emphasis on the stat gain (+2 to all stats, that isn't exactly that big of a deal) and other abilities is a bit excessive.

And to answer a question she posed, I believe the reason that we do not see +stat artifact is because the intent was to create in-game mechanisms to achieve them.

Then obviously it adds nothing to the game right, and therefore this astral problem should be no big issue eh?

Of course they add massive power or no one would go for them. It's the same with dragons, people saw how overpowered they were and instantly you had 200 people trying to achieve it. Their abilities may be taxing, but obviously not too taxing as everytime I've influenced when Aesyra was around, divinefire was up.

Could she have sancted, sure, but we had her trapped once...lo' and behold...divinefire went up.

I'd prefer level 100 to be more of an RP thing rather than the uberness of the stats. It is working out fine now, but I can just see it being gotten by Murphy and, nothing against him personally, but he will just slaughter everyone.

I think you are kind of missing the point. What strikes me as rather perverse is how the rewards for reaching the top levels are not at all related to the skills it takes to get there.

It seems the best way to reach level 100 is to spend every waking hour bashing and avoid any kind of PvP. What use would someone like that have for all these cool combat abilities and rp opportunities?

Theoretically:

If Murphy would pray once, he'd have to bash for like 4-5 hours (endless Astral bashing) to get the amount of essence to break even. If his essence falls too low, he loses demigod.

And to be honest, I'd like to fight Murphy as a demigod. I think I could still beat him

Do they add something? Sure. Is it absurd? I don't think so. If it was, I imagine that Estarra and Roark would act in a fashion to make in more balanced as they do with everything to the point that it was something that could be handled.

Furthermore, I don't understand your rationale. Believe it or not, Aesyra (and any Celestine with the abilities) can trueheal/catacombs and get away from ANYONE 100x times easier than she could put up Divine Fire. Of course, I could have gotten away from massive groups in a similar situation with Serpent. In a village in play, I just need to regen 1p, move one room away, and setup sanctuary. It doesn't always work but it does 99% of the time.

Well this isn't meant to be a whos better than who thread.. ideally I don't care if its Murphy whos a Demi-god or its Narsrim or its someone else who's perfectly happy NOT going kill happy. All I know is I think there should be less strength increasing rewards involved.. I think it should be primarily RP rewards as IRE is a RP environment. All I stated theres numerous things I like about Demi-gods and Avatars that I find fascinating enough that I'd spend the couple months straight bashing to get.. without stat bonuses and divine fires and all that.. maybe it is taxing but taxing dont make it ok for osmeone to be unkillable..

To respond to Narsrim yes Aesyra has been killed but lets face it Aesyra as far as PVP is concerned.. sucks. Personally I don't think it should take a Kaervas or Ethelon or Murphy or Eiru or someone who knows their stuff hitting Demi-God to show that with that extra power they can wreak alot of havoc.. No offense to Aesyra but I dont think shes the model of the Demi-God we're fearing. If I'm not mistaken Demi-Gods also influence alot better than mortals too, another nice fine and reasonable RP advantage that pays off big time. I say focus more on these tpyes of bonuses and not the +stats +regen +huge attack +invul type bonuses. Give them influence bonuses, give them RP things galore I fully support a Demi-God being a representation of RP but I just dont support a good warrior turning into an even better warrior kind of thing.

I think this is based on the assumption that those who bash are not good combatants or roleplayers. Kaervas, for example, is a top notch fighter who is level 92. Furthermore, Aesyra, for example, was an active roleplayer and a decent combatant.

Of course there is nothing stopping the top ranked characters being great combatants and roleplayers. Being a great basher is not incompatible with being a great fighter or roleplayer, however neither of those skills are required to be a great basher.

I really don't think you understand the costs associated with the abilities. It isn't as if you can do jack unless you are willing to turn around and bash for hours on end to re-gather the essence to ensure that you can do it again. Furthermore, if you put yourself in harms way and die, we are talking one MASSIVE essence hole to fill.

I think it would be somewhat misplaced if some IC demigod was of the same strength as a mortal. In fact, I would argue that it damages RP/IC to not increase their might above the average mortal. Why the hell do they get to bear the title of demigod if they are not above the rest?

Furthermore, I'm curious as to your opinion of artifacts. I could certainly become far more kick ass if I had a level 3 torc, a level 2 health regen ring, a cubix (to wisk me away almost as easily as divine transport), a level 3 scepter, etc. Most of these advantages are possible via demigod status without having to spend thousands of $$$ to achieve... and you are objecting?

True. However, there are some factors to consider. The abilities gained by demigods, for example, favor everyone. From a roleplay perspective, I think it makes perfect sense and fits in well that a demigod could protect him or herself from a mortal who dares to attack. From a combat perspective, divine fire is a useful ability as you are a huge target that everyone is going to want to take down (and given the cost of divine fire, you really have a hefty decision to make because if you waste all your essence, you lose demigod-hood). From a bashing perspective, you still need to bash once you obtain demigod status because you need essence. Divine fire can protect you from denizens as well as players. Divine transport can take you away from a bad situation of 10 gemini eagles as easily as a raging pker. Level 3 health/mana/ego regen on Astral, the ability to refresh power and such... all can be applied to both if not all three scenarios.

You are also all basing it on Aesyra, whom is the only Demi-god thus far. She has had MAJOR advantages that others will not. Noone, besides the Divine and her, really know their powers and costs/limitations. She also had well over a month of time to gather essence, due to the "fear factor" of her new, unknown, abilities. Not to mention, she is an Avatar, which grants MORE powers. Not everyone will become an Avatar.

Now that things are alittle more common knowledge, it isn't as bad as some may have first thought(Myself included). The next ones to reach Demigod will have ALOT harder time.

You are very mistaken.

How long will it take someone else to reach demigod, given that astral was bashable?

Let's take a titan, for example.

I heard it takes 100 astral mobs for 1%, that is only 10k mobs, with the way astral was, that's not too difficult to achieve at all.

Ofcourse, I could be wrong in regards to how many mobs it takes to get a percent while titan.

And, don't demigods get additional stats? One of those stats being charisma?

I would say it's far more than 100 mobs, expecially seeing as the exp formula was tweaked for Titans and Demigods. It took Aesyra atleast a month to get from Titan to Demi-god, and she bashed an average of 12-14 hours a day(or something insane like that).

The charisma stat boost isn't that big of a difference. I've heard the comment that they influence so much better more times than I can count. It's not what people seem to think, the only real advantage they get in there is... less random people are going to be willing to jump them.

personally after the achaea dragon infestation, i think the divine should limit how many people can get demi-god hood make it like 5 active players, if they go inactive the next person in line moves up. that way there would always be active demi-gods and not people who just bash up get it get bored and quit. As for skills powers and abilities, the only one i think that needs to be adjusted for demi-gods and titans is the thunderclap i don't know if it has been since i just got back from a week long vacation but you never know.

Just reading that reinforces my views on how much I hate bashing.

one demi god per guild with abbilities dependant on what class his guild is? that would be better