The Problem:

From help glomdoring, feast your eyes:

Able to welcome new commune me: Ichiro, Tenat, Nyla, Sobran, Aurella, Josun,
and Xenthos

I've seen the list twice as long as that. We've got more CR6's that any other city/commune, from what I can tell, and just about none of them deserve it. I'm not saying that everyone who is a CR6 in Glomdoring sucks, and I'm sure most of them deserve perhaps CR3 or 4. However, CR6 is the highest you can get in a city without being in a specific leadership position, and even most leaders (Ministers) are usually CR2-5. It is, thus, a fairly lofty position and one that should require years (Not in the IC sense, either) of service and dedication to acquire. In other IRE games I hit cwho and see hardly anyone that high up.

So we've got a slew of people in these high positions, and most of them don't deserve to be that high. But sadly, we NEED to give them all unearned communefavours because otherwise we'd have 0 villages at this point. So we can either be stuck in one of two crappy situations:

A) We use favours as they were intended, only giving awards where they are due and mantaining a well-balanced hierachy within the commune. In response to this we have no villages, power, or commodities.

B) We 'abuse' favours, piling them upon anyone of even marginal value to the commune and completely undermining the purpose of the favouring system. Everyone has unearned privs, status, and recognition. But, at least, we get the power and commodities we need to function.

THE SOLUTION:
Make city rank play NO ROLE in the influencing of villages. Instead of basing how many of the 3 village influencing abilities a person can use on CR, make it instead dependent upon level or influence skill. For example:

At capable in influence you get your first village influencing skill, dependant upon your city/commune.
You get the second at master.
You get the third at virtuoso.

Levels might be better, because then you aren't forced to spend lessons in influence.

First skill at level 20.
Second at level 40.
Third at level 60.

Or something along those lines. As for sanctuary and crusade, instead of them only usable by CR3 and above, have them usable by guild champions and protectors. This would give protectors something to do, as well; security gets discretionay powers, protectors get crusade/sanctuary.

ALSO:
Another thing I've looked at is Guild ranks. The following suggestions are very likely to be ignored, as the guild rank structure is the same in every IRE game, but here goes nothing.

There are currently 20 possible ranks in every guild, which in my opinion is way too many. Let's take the Ebonguard for example.

In the Ebonguard, once you reach the position of 'Warden' you are given GR5. Wardens are basically the guild elite. You have to be GR8 to contest for a major leadership position. Other guilds are similar; I think Ur'guard Death Marshalls are around GR6-8 or something. However, a number of guild privs are located in the upper echelons of guild rank, which is why the Aquamancers favour all their secreteries to GR15. Once again we are presented with 2 situations, both bad:

A) You only give guild favours where they are due, ect. In this case your secreteries and others of importance won't be able to carry out their duties to the fullest extent because they are lacking several commands.

B) You give your secretaries loads of undeserved favours, ect. ect., once again undermining the system but allowing them to fuction in their fullest capacity.

There are two solutions, and I think if both were taken it would create a much better environment.

1 - Lower the number of Guild Ranks to 6. They would operate in the same was as city ranks, then. Novices would become GR1 upon graduation, and the Guild's elite would be GR6. Leaders would still be '*', or 'GR7'. This way members have a better understanding of where they are.

GR1 - Graduates
GR2 - Still learning, but have proven that you're not an idiot.
GR3 - A sort of middle-ground. You've been around the guild for some time, and you know how to get things done.
GR4 - Long-time members, have done a lot to assist the guild and are fairly important figures
GR5 - Veterans, have contributed a ton and been around for awhile
GR6 - The Elite, the Elders, the best the guild has to offer.

Change it or interperet however you like, it's still better than the current system.

2 - Attach most guild privs to POSITIONS, not to RANKS. I know this has been brought up before. Instead of having to be GR5 or 15 to perform an action, make it so you have to be a sec or undersec to do it. BETTER YET: Make guild privs like clan privs, and have the Guild Admin assign them to whatever positions and ranks that they want.

Well, that's all for now. Please leave any comments, input, or complete debunkings of my theories.

Good.

Agreed on all your points. Good job.

Here I was thinking something very much the opposite. Namely, that city ranks should go up to 20, instead of just six.

My thought was that it would give more distinction between work done - because rank is so important for influencing and the like, and because most places seem to hand out city/commune favours for doing things to further the city/commune in question (Such as assisting in getting a village), it very quickly results in a large number of people with high rank, who do a lot of work, and are still ranked equally with people who do things once in a while, but are basically useless (Point in case - myself. I almost never do anything for Magnagora, outside of helping get Villages, but I'm CR5). People like me should not be on the same level of recognition as people like Murphy, who work their ass off constantly for the city. Yet, 'tis sadly true.

I agree for the most part. City/Commune rank is nothing more than a tool for influencing and, despite this, isn't given out in Serenwilde to my knowledge like it is in Magnagora and Glomdoring due to Divine wishes (Purely roleplay, of course. Not putting down anyone). Like Guido, I feel City/Commune rank should hold another purpose while village influencing skills are done in other manner.

One thing I don't agree with is the guild rank. I like the large leaps in numbers, but they also need more privs. I'd say at GR5, 10, and 15 (or so) there should be investable privilege slots for whatever the Admin/GM desires. If something isn't done then I agree that it should also be scraped (Wasn't there a thread sometime ago that said there weren't many privileges even at GR15?).

I don't know if I like the ideas or not...meh.

EDIT: Perhaps because I don't want yet another skill I need to sink credits into to be half-useful.

Yeah, Ix, but you've been around so damn long I'd expect you to be CR5 by now if all you did was sit at the Megalith and scream at novices.

I don't like making influence based on skill rank. Other than that, its good.

That's a toss up there. On the one hand, you have making people invest in a skill, which means credits (ugg). On the other, you base it on levels, which means everyone will have it, which somehow feels 'odd' in a bad way.

Perhaps put them both together. Level 40 gets you the two skills you NEED to influence properly while more Influence makes them more powerful. Then a person with inept Influence can influence anyone BUT you're much better off with someone who's mastered it.

Makes noncombatants more useful I say.




The ONLY reason why I would go for this is because of the new peaceful influencing. Now that some sessions will be purly peaceful we may not be needing Sanc/Crusade as much anymore. Giving them to those people will make sanc/crus a way to 'change the tide' without it turning into THE way to play.

As for guild ranks:



The latter choice I like. We can keep the 20 rank options but allow the guild the customize what the ranks mean. If you want ot utilize all 20, giving privs as you go up but allowing position people the privs they need regardless of rank (and, thus, losing them when they lose the position) go right ahead. If you want only 3 ranks with almost everyone at 2 with a few privs, aides and leaders at 3 with full privs and 'punished' or 'probation' people at 1 with none then go ahead.

Another thing to add is a command that lets the nation/guildleader flat out set a rank for an individual. If you realy REALY mean for that L1 to be a L5 why spend a week Favoring them, just 'SET GUILDRANK (person) 5' and be done with it. if it means some guilds never use Favors then so be it: I bet the majority will still do, especialy if the leader is the ONLY one who can set the rank.

Unless guild privs were revamped from Achaea, secretaries have all the privs they need by simple virtue of being a secretary. A GR2 secretary can give guildfavours, read and write logs, spy inventory (unless working with a higher-ranking secretary), check skills, inguild, etc. The mass favouring was for show. Guild ranks, I would say, are fine.

The rest sounds good now, but I'd rather sit and mull it over before arguing in favor of it.

I was GR11 before being made a secretary, so I had guild inventory already, but I still don't have guild skills.

EDIT: Yes I do. WHY DOES THIS NOT SHOW UP IN GUILD PRIVS? Nevermind.

Actually secretaries cannot Guildfavour anymore, just so you know, as well as not check Inventory and skills. I've been a sect here and in Achaea, and i've tried them, dont work *shrug* Guildfavour got changed lil bit ago, i was trying to guildfavour someone, gr4 sect and noticed, it wasn't there and not working either.

With the so many people in Glom that are cr6 is the fact a lil bit ago, everyone who was a minister was getting upped to cr6, all the top fighters were getting pushed to cr6 as well. So yeah.

CR rank has been a meaningless feature of the game all along. It should be changed and Guido's example is as good as any that I can see. As far as I am concerned constant CF lists are the bane of an Org because there is nothing you need do more than have your friend nominate you for it. Which is why I removed myself from using the CF list long ago. I feel that gaining CF's should be something that makes you feel like you truly earned something. Not just another "ah we don't have enough influencers so I got cf'd to be forced to help more"

Nuh uh. At gr3, no guildfavors (gr5), no inventory (I thought that was gr 10), no skills (dunno), and I'm not sure if they can write to the log (possible I don't know how to do so).

While I can't say off the top of my head about the other people, Josun isn't CR6. He's able to welcome 'cause he's an aide and stuff.

Edit: To not be all nit-picky and focus on the main point of this topic, I kind of like the idea mentioned about making there be more CR ranks, to show who's been doing more work. It's much too easy to CF someone up to GR6, but to CF someone up to CR19 would be a little more difficult.

Ugg, I was hoping someone would come in and correct me, saying that Secs already had those privledges. I was a secretary over in Aetolia while still at GR3 and had all the powers I needed, though my guildfavors were utterly HORRIBLE.

Thus, customizable ranks and privs would be wonderful. Let the guild or nation decide what it means to be such and such rank.

Secretary privs I wish I had: checking the last time someone logged on (would be helpful in tracking novices towards graduation), and checking skills/lessons or whatever it is.

I'm paranoid about commands that could be useful that I don't know of now .

Be nice if undersecretaries had skills, inventory, lastlogin and score, usable only on novices.

Secretaries should always be able to guildfavour.

Also guildmasters need to be able to NEXUS STATUS , so they don't get 5 pages of crap when they usually only need one.

Raising the total number of Cityranks to 20 will only make the situation worse for the exact same reason that have 20 guildranks is a bad idea.

How often do you see someone above GR8, not counting former leaders or those who have been mass favoured to get privs? Almost never. Like I said, most guilds have it set up so that GR5-8 are their 'elite members'. If we instituted 20 CRs in cities then one of two changes would occur.

A) Cities would become just like guilds, wherein CR5-8 are the elite citizens and people are only raised above it to get some privs.

B) People would naturally assume that because there are now so many more ranks, that it requires less of an effort to earn 1 rank advancement. With these 'lowered standards' you'd see a bunch of CR18's running around within a month.

It wouldn't fix the problem, it would just make leaders put forth more of an effort to raise up their citizens. Of course, if influence WAS changed and privs DID become city/guild assigned, then a CR20 system might work, but in that situation we wouldn't need it anyway because things would be back on track.