Well, with the latest alt's being legal to use in the Faethorn quest, I decided to see if the Divine in favour of Serenwilde would let me do the EXACT SAME THING. So, I create an alt..... and in less than 10 minutes my Innocence is REMOVED before I even did the quest or did any type of action that could be considered offensive. If this is not apparent abuse on someone (who I won't name, but they know who they are) then I don't know what is. I really hope Estarra does something about this because it's gone way to far now.

This is right after I made the alt, learned a few skils to get to Ethereal and walked to the Archway....

You step into a flowering archway and are whisked to the Realm of Faethorn.
Twisting pathway into the tainted mists.
An archway of thorns rises up from the ground. The fossilized remains of
Aerenna are here. A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading northeast and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northwest
Runed pathway.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north and southeast.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
A putrescent garden.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, northeast, south, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northeast
Fun little spirals.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading northeast, southeast, southwest, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southeast
Saddened mist.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, east, south, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
south
Trees of warding.
A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Saddened mist.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, east, south, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northwest
Fun little spirals.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading northeast, southeast, southwest, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northwest
Meeting winds.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, east, and southeast.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Warehouse of stone.
The fossilized remains of Syntobis are here. A hemlock sapling clings
tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, northeast, east, south, and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southwest
Fallen snow.
The fossilized remains of Gorokan are here. A hornbeam sapling clings
tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading northeast, southeast, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
west
Autumn's falling spring.
A hornbeam sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A golden honeycomb
lies here, gleaming with sugary goodness.
You see exits leading east and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
get honeycomb
You pick up a honeycomb.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southwest
A snowy breadth of brittle grass.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, northeast, and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
south
Rain covered snow.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north and east.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
east
A putrescent garden.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, northeast, south, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Summer apple trees in fall.
A hornbeam sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading south and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northwest
Fallen snow.
The fossilized remains of Gorokan are here. A hornbeam sapling clings
tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading northeast, southeast, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
west
Autumn's falling spring.
A hornbeam sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading east and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northwest
There is no exit in that direction.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southwest
A snowy breadth of brittle grass.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, northeast, and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Rainwater pavement.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A brownie leaps
about from foot to foot here, giggling inanely.
You see exits leading north and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Rainwater avenue.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-

The silken calls of various birds that flit throughout Faethorn form a
delightful melody.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
A busy crossroads.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, east, south, southwest, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northwest
A warm, churning spa.
A birch sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading southeast, southwest, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southeast
A busy crossroads.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, east, south, southwest, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southwest
There's water ahead of you. You'll have to swim in that direction to make it
through.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
ab totems
You have gained the following abilities in Totems:
Squirrel Forage for nourishment.
Night Shroud yourself with mother night.
Skunk Spray other people or the ground with a stinky odor.
Sun Regenerate your ego under the sun's presence.
Rock Make yourself harder to move.
Moon Regenerate your mana under the moon's presence.
Crow Instill fear into others.
Tree Heal yourself in the presence of mystic trees.
Groundhog Burrow into the ground.
Trout Breathe underwater like a fish.
Wolf Become brave as a wolf.
Bear Become strong like a bear.
AB TOTEMS for more information on an ability.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
spiritbond trout
You call upon the spirit of rainbow trout, and a fine spray of water cools your
skin.
331h, 299m, 352e, 0p x-

/=========================\\
{ Equilibrium Recovered }
\\=========================/
331h, 299m, 352e, 0p ex-
swim sw
You begin to steadily swim southwest.
331h, 299m, 352e, 0p ex-

A warmer bathing area.
Superimposed over this location, an ethereal forest reaches up to the sky.
You see exits leading northeast, west, and northwest.
331h, 299m, 352e, 0p ex-
west
There's water ahead of you. You'll have to swim in that direction to make it
through.
331h, 299m, 352e, 0p ex-

A sprite bound in shadows flies up and places a hand on your head, channeling
mana to you.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
swim w
You begin to steadily swim west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-

A colder bathing area.
Superimposed over this location, an ethereal forest reaches up to the sky. The
fossilized remains of Kalodan are here.
You see exits leading northeast, east, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
swim nw
You begin to steadily swim northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-

A waterfall into the pools.
A birch sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading northeast and southeast.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
swim ne
You get down on your belly and begin trying to swim, but only succeed in
rolling around in the dirt a bit.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northeast
A frigid pool.
An oak sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading east, southeast, and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southeast
A busy cleaning area.
The fossilized remains of Gregori are here. A birch sapling clings tenaciously
to the ground here.
You see exits leading northeast, southeast, southwest, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northeast
A warm, churning spa.
A birch sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading southeast, southwest, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southeast
A busy crossroads.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, east, south, southwest, and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Freestanding waterfall.
A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Floating bits of wetness.
A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Cyclonic tents.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north, southeast, and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
qw
Alger, Elysiana, Kharvik, Vhri, Zenji, Torris, Vix, Shayle, Nejii, Spindle,
Neijing.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Shimmering tents.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A royal knight of
Faethorn stands here lacking the customary helmet letting her hair fall free.
You see exits leading northeast and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northeast
Housing on parade.
A blackthorn sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading east and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
east
A quilt of colours.
A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. The fossilized remains
of Charis are here.
You see exits leading east, southeast, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
east
A flip-flopped fountain.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A heavy glove covers
the hand of the man standing here.
You see exits leading north, southeast, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
north
Icy feeding grounds.
The fossilized remains of Laysus are here. An obsidian eye sigil is here. A
hornbeam sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading northeast and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
northeast
Backwards avenue.
A flowering archway rises up from the ground. A sigil in the shape of a small,
rectangular monolith is on the ground. The fossilized remains of Laysus are
here. The fossilized remains of Kalodan are here. The fossilized remains of
Gorokan are here. The fossilized remains of Triden are here. The fossilized
remains of Isare are here. The fossilized remains of Kante are here. The
fossilized remains of Folken are here. A birch sapling clings tenaciously to
the ground here.
You see exits leading southeast and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southeast
A garden of hanging flowers.
An obsidian eye sigil is here. The fossilized remains of Sylphas are here. A
hornbeam sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A little fae girl skips
about here, dressed in a little blue dress. A royal knight of Faethorn stands
here at the ready.
You see exits leading south and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
south
A wall of words.
The fossilized remains of Laysus are here. A birch sapling clings tenaciously
to the ground here. A royal knight of Faethorn stands here at the ready.
You see exits leading north, east, and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
east
Shadowed tag.
A sigil in the shape of a small, rectangular monolith is on the ground. A rowan
sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading east, southwest, and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
east
Bridged rope passages.
A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A royal knight of
Faethorn stands here at the ready.
You see exits leading southeast and west.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
southeast
Eaves amid lawns.
A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. There are 2 fae knights
here.
You see exits leading south and northwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-

Your grace is automatically removed.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
south
Recessed entranceways.
A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A royal knight of
Faethorn stands here at the ready.
You see exits leading north, south, and southwest.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
south
A bass overtone.
A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A royal knight of
Faethorn stands here at the ready.
You see exits leading north and south.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
stat
Shadowbound Neijing
Strength : 7 Dexterity : 18 Constitution : 9
Intelligence : 15 Size : 4 Charisma : 16
You are essentially naked, and utterly satiated.
You are fully rested.
You are sober and in control.
From the clothing that can be seen, you look like a naked fool.
You are an enemy of: Nowhere.
You currently possess 0 lessons, 0 Credits.
You have played for a total of 0 days, 0 hours and 15 minutes.
This week you've played a total of 0 days, 0 hours and 15 minutes.
You are currently ignoring shouts. Typing SHOUTSON will remedy this.
You may type PORTALS to automatically transport yourself to the Room of
Portals, from which you may easily access numerous useful locations.
You are under level 20 and may not shout.
You are not currently active in any family.
Your current mindset is analytical.
You have one free reincarnation.
You have not set a motto or warcry. Please type SET MOTTO or SET WARCRY to
learn more.
You will timeout after 10 minutes of inactivity.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
sc
Shadowbound Neijing
Sex : Male Race : Faeling
Level : 1 (0%) Rank : Neophyte
Health : 331/331 Endurance : 555/555
Mana : 349/349 Willpower : 645/645
Ego : 352/352 Reserves : 0%
Karma : 0%
You stand tall as a proud member of the Collective of Glomdoring.
You have reached the rank of 'Shade' in your commune.
You are a Freshmen Novice in the Shadowdancers.
You are a Vagrant in the Fellowship of Explorers
You are 23 years old.
You were born on the 12th of Dioni, 101 years after the Coming of Estarra.
331h, 349m, 352e, 0p ex-
south
A singing lane.
A rowan sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here.
You see exits leading north and south.



..................a few minutes later Gregori killed me.

Weren't you collecting honeycombs?

Last I knew, we asked a REAL newbie to do it. If you make an alt to specifically help your main's commune because of innocence, how is that not breaking HELP SECONDS?

It wasn't a real newbie, which was confirmed and directly from Lisaeria's mouth, even if it is an alt, doing quests does not break seconds. Also Tarya collected honeycombs also.... and since when is picking up a honeycomb breaking innocence?

It is indeed breaking the rules, and Ethelon should be glad they just removed his grace and not shrubbed all his chars.

Also it could just of been you where getting honeycombs..., some quests automaticly remove grace. Like the tome of rememberence quest

Here, I'll say this, and hopefully won't have to repeat it. As per LISAERA, everything I did was LEGAL. This was discussed with her LAST NIGHT and I did nothing to abuse Seconds by her view. Also, I did this just to prove a point. I hate alts otherwise and will never log this character on again, just wanted to see the BS for myself.

I think the real point here is it seems ok when its a Serens alt, as was admitted freely that she was a former Dancer who went inactive for a time, but now if its one of ours it takes all of 10 seconds for grace to be removed. Now we delt with this little annoying thing running around with innocence sabotaging our hard work for awhile, also delt with Laysus and Munsia abusing normal grace to slip in to Faethorn and be flow targets, both of these instances no one cared about the sanctity of abuse of grace but soon as someone else besides Serenwilde does it its a slap instantly.

Now I don't know about you all but one thing I kinda like about Lusternia is fact players drive the world, not this kind of double standard Divine interference in favour of one side then in disfavour of the other. In my opinion any abuse of grace, such as the novice or even Laysus/Munsia is just stupid and should be punished.. but if we aren't going to set that precendence before hand let us not be enforcing now when it's someone else.

Neijing enters your demesne.
3260h, 4148m, 3260e, 10p, 13482en, 19640w elrxkdb- / 22:56:42:957
Neijing leaves your demesne.
3260h, 4148m, 3260e, 10p, 13482en, 19640w elrxkdb- / 22:56:43:908
Neijing enters your demesne.
3260h, 4148m, 3260e, 10p, 13482en, 19640w elrxkdb- / 22:56:54:543
Neijing leaves your demesne.
3260h, 4148m, 3260e, 10p, 13540en, 19640w elrxkdb- / 22:56:59:821
Neijing enters your demesne.
3260h, 4148m, 3260e, 10p, 13540en, 19640w elrxkdb- / 22:57:02:535

Shadowbound Neijing (Male Faeling).
He is 23 years old, having been born on the 12th of Dioni, 101 years after the
Coming of Estarra.
He is unranked in Lusternia.
He is an extremely credible character.
He is a Vagrant in the Fellowship of Explorers
He is considered to be approximately 0% of your might.
He is not currently active in any family.
3260h, 4148m, 3260e, 10p, 13834en, 19640w elrxkdb- / 22:58:27:409

Your trained eyes scan the surrounding area.
You make out the figure of Neijing.
You make out the figure of Vhri.
3260h, 4040m, 3260e, 10p, 13862en, 19628w elrxkdb- / 22:58:43:742
You tell Shadowbound Neijing, "Remove yourself from Faethorn."
3260h, 4044m, 3260e, 10p, 13886en, 19607w elrxkdb- / 22:58:54:127
Flowers spring up from the forest floor and quickly blossom in a panoply of
bright colours.
3260h, 3909m, 3260e, 10p, 13898en, 19572w lrxkdb- / 22:58:54:978

Shadowbound Neijing (Male Faeling).
He is 23 years old, having been born on the 12th of Dioni, 101 years after the
Coming of Estarra.
He is unranked in Lusternia.
He is an extremely credible character.
He is a Vagrant in the Fellowship of Explorers
He is considered to be approximately 0% of your might.
He is not currently active in any family.
3260h, 3909m, 3260e, 10p, 13910en, 19586w elrxkdb- / 22:58:59:465
Neijing leaves your demesne.



Now I don't know when you lost your grace, but it wasn't when you first skipped in and out, and it wasn't when I told you to leave the first time. All I see from your post is fighting alt abuse with alt abuse. From what I heard though, the person who did abuse alts in SW was dealt with not only by the admins but by his guild as well.

Let's not forget all the Glomdoring members who were killed in the raids and using Grace to collect Fae earlier either.
I think there is an expression here.

Pot meet Kettle.

As far as I heard Gregori, they were thanked for their abuse and the Divine did nothing about it but say it was Legal. I lost grace about a minute after I entered the first time. The post was my first entering of Faethorn.

This was done to mock the fact your side has been doing it none stop. We whined and cried about it for days now and keep getting told by Norns that it's legal...so we finally started. Considering it is Serenwilde who started all this Grace abuse, for you to try and turn it on us is just hilarious.

Grace and Grace of innocence are two seperate entities. You abused something that does not fade away. Doesn't surprise me really though.

Nor does it surprise me that you used Portals to get suspect status.

Like Lisaera said in another treath it isn't grace abuse. Maybe Serenwilde started it, maybe Magnagora started it during the raids on Celestia. Personally I make a point to never use grace for tactical advantage like walking trough a demesne to provide flow target or finding a demesne edge or something even less bad like finding out if the place is illusioned because I think it's wrong. And I also think Grace has no place on any plane but Prime.

This might be a dumb and irrelevent question, but how does a 15 minute-old newbie gain a sprite?

Edit: And if a Serenwilde newbie was collecting honeycombs behind grace of innocence, I'd think that was unfair as much as a Glomdoring newbie would be doing the same.

By getting someone else to order them to follow the newbie.

Hey, Gregori, missed the point where I am never logging the alt on again? Or the fact it was to prove the BS that is pulled behind the scenes? I love how you believe everything someone does is to just HURT you, grow up. I went to portals hopieng to get out of the demesne and bleed to death...obviously I MUST have wanted to do it just to hurt you. Please, get a life.

Right..the admin are biased towards the SW (I thought it was towards Magnagora, considering their advantages!) and you're all just the picked on little commune that works so hard and gains so very little.





The admin have constantly made changes and adjustments in order to accomodate Glomdoring and still you guys cry foul?

Estarra, just burn it! I'm sure that there's a red 'delete Glomdoring' button. *duck*

Personally I see no alt abuse. The two characters were not on at the same time. He was a character helping his city/commune.






If they decide that having a novice do quests under grace for the city or commune while they have a bigger alt is illegal, then they are going to have to make it so that your alt cannot reside in the same city or commune.

I think we need to go back to nappies and teathing rings :|.

I don't think making an alt in the same commune is asmuch a problem. But making a novice just for those quests and no other RP, no intend to level just so they can have innocence is a problem

(before you reply Ethelon I'm not saying you did this)