Just wondering if anyone out there is using books instead of helpfiles?

Guilds and Communes seem to be using helpfiles to store every little thing (which i'm not opposed to)

For example the lunar breviary which is three files long (and really hard to read) would make more sense to put into a book but because books cost so much and they appear to have unlimited files they don't.

My idea is that there should be some restrictions upon how many helpfiles an organisation can have. (three mores is quite a few)
The constant question saran gets when he's trying to sell books is "what's the point" every other tradeskill(and yeah there are a few) is filled with skills that could be useful in some way or another.

But if everything is kept in help files then theres not much point. (i'm going to post another idea about using bookbinding skills later)
If the files were limited guilds would have to put the more important information into the help files and then other info into books.

So for example. the moondancers "Witching Path" could be stored in a book that is copied for graduate as opposed to the hmm 11 files it's stored in now.

... ... ...just an idea

There werent books too long ago so guild/city/commune help files were the best way to give everyone access to information.

And books are expensive, and -much- harder to access.

True, but should we leave it that way, or does the fact we have books now mean the end of the 'dump it all into help files' ideal?

Perhaps books need an added incentive, say editing the Master book changes all copies made from it.

Edit: Or we could go the Evil path and destroy Chelp/Ghelp/projects.

We dont actually have libraries yet, so you would have one person carrying around all these books. Cause I am not a big fan of just leaving books in the guildhall cause then it just comes up missing.

This already happens.

true but you could make a book filled with all the stuff a novice would need to know. Have the head of novices carry that around and duplicate it when needed.

(Sorry for this) Moondancerscould set it up like this:
Novices - The Book of the Seeker
Witching Path - The Book of the Path
High Priest - The Book of Moon

each would be bigger, the master kept by who ever is considered incharge of that area (head of novices, someone, leader) and updated by them when neccessary. And of course if it's in enchanted script even if someone drops the book, no one outside your guild/commune could read.

keep in mind that only pay the bulk of the cost of a book once. (copy only uses comms) and if you have a good turn over, books could be passed down through the guild.

Books wouldn't be returned.

8k for a copy of a 50 page book, 12k for a copy of a 75 page book, probably 4k for a copy of a 25 page book.

Do we really want to spend that much on each Seeker? We're getting 10-20 every OOC day. That's a lot of money.

Help scrolls are just easier.

Books are also harder to reference.

Meh, it actually isn't a bad idea, but help scrolls work just as well, I think.


EDIT: Oh, and the Witching Path will be stored in a book, I was just waiting for libraries to see how they will change things. Right now, leaving a book flamed to the floor is dumb - you can't edit it. Making a copy works, but I was hoping for a more elegant solution.

remember those prices would change with comm availability and that your friendly neibourhood saran would copy moondancer books for free if you bring the comms.

Also we could just do compendiums if it's only comms and the ink they would be cheapest.
Also if you put everything unneccessary to seekers and the breviary into book(ses) you could cut down on the files and ask that graduates try to get the comms themselves.

The Lunar Breviary is another set of things that's going to be in a book as well, eventually. Really, we've thought of matters like this ... we're just waiting for circumstances to allow for such things in a suitable manner (e.g., libraries).

And hopefully libraries will enable things in a way that we won't just be throwing money towards making books that'll "walk" ...

Screw compendiums, use pamphlets for smaller ghelps, and textbooks for multiple pages. You really never need more than a few pages, really, and pages are infinitely long.

Also, it'd be nice if you WOULD charge for copies, because bookbinding profits suck to start with, let alone if you can't charge for copying because someone is undercutting you. Guilds can afford it.

The things novices need to know for novicehood are in help files for a reason. As they ALWAYS have access to them where as the book can only be available if said person with the book is around.

Those prices are wrong by the way, it's around 17k for nearly double the comms of the 75 page codex which is roughly 9k.
Plus only 5 applications of magic ink (which is cheap if you have an arrangement set up)

Also keep in mind that the novices wouldn't need a large book. one with a page for the advancement tasks, helpful tips about what they might look into learning, information on skillchoices.

for a bookbinder i don't know much about how many pages they have. but a pamphlet may have enough pages and that probably wouldn't be that expensive to copy. but again the books can act as a censoring method so that you can record information that you don't want some people to be seeing i.e information that one section of the guild could need but is completely irrelevant to another.

Pamphlets and scrolls are two infinite pages long.

And why would you need to censor guild info? Just because you don't need to see doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to see it.

We could easily enchant the script anyway so only the guild can see it.

I think the actual problem is that none of these bookbinders want to get together and set prices (Aside from Nejii and maybe Saran, but he's trying to undercut Nejii anyway ) so then we end up with a bunch of confusion. I'm betting Nejii has the only stable price list at the moment anyway. All of this.. shifting with commodity price is since we have a large amount to keep track of.

It isn't like people are going to come back after they bought a book anyway.. aside from organizations or someone doing novels.

Err.. back on topic though, I'm sure libraries will get rid of CHELP/GHELP/ETC or bookbinding will just be a hobby trade.

meh, there are somethings that perhaps people shouldn't know lest they go seeking them

like he way to enter the secret place in the moondance tower is quite easy to work out once you read the help files. while it's a law, you could just as easily say those under (guildrank) may not be found within the (place). then in say (from above) the book of moon you could have information about getting into that place

think creativly

I will throw a tantrum if they get rid of CHELP and GHELP, unless libraries are remotely accessible. It will be HELL helping novices if I have to guide each one to the goddamn library Hartstone doesn't have.

I am not *pouts* i just don't feel like a 200% markup is either fair or a good way to attract business, 150% on the base cost brings in a nice profit and means i don't have shifting prices due to comms (you either bring them or i buy them from your money)

so a omnibus would be a base of 45000 plus the comms with a 15000 profit. Nejii might make 30000 profit but i've heard complaints about his prices.

Anyway Saran needs the money.

My suggestion is to enforce a maximum number of chelps and ghelps so that everytime someone wants a piece of info to be publicly available they have to think twice before just putting it into a help as opposed to a book.

like a list of traders that could have a flamed copy dropped inside the comms shop instead of a help file to do the same thing.

for those who think that you would have to drop a flamed master copy then walk there to update. you can make multiple copies of your master then just keep that with you, updating when neccessary.

Firstly, yah, NOTHING heavybookwise should happen until Libraries come in. I'm thinking of post-libraries/better wood stock/organized Bookbinders.

Overall, though, a novice fresh from the portal realy only has a few things they need to know: what their guild is about, where they need to go, how they need to get there, and perhaps one or two other matters. Everything else can be put into a 'book' ('book' = pamphlet, journal, whatever works best) and handed to them. In fact, it might be best for a truly fresh novice: flooding a person who's never played a MUD before with pages and pages of text to read can be VERY painful, especialy when you havn't even met anyone yet (i.e. when HELP GUILDNOVICES has a good 5-10 other help files to read and you're told to read ALL of them before you can meet anyone).

Also, having everything in books means a novice who knows G/CHELP INDEX doesn't have instant knowledge of how to get into the Guildhall, how to do (and mess up for others) all important quests, ext. A player jumping into every guild as a novice, and logging the help files can probably learn more about the game than a person 6 months into one guild can learn.

Instead, you can have Help Guildnovices lead the novice either to a player carrying a copy of the 'Novice Book' or, if no one is there, can be lead to a Flamed copy to read until someone is there. After that, just put all important information in literature and have the masters held by either a library (if there's a way to keep it safe, of course), or a person who's in charge of it's information ('Books' about combat held by the Champion, Laws by the GM). Suddenly you don't have to flood people with EVERY bit of info or be forced to having Clans for every darn thing. Instead, if I'm training to be a Defender for my guild while studying Astrology, I'd have a Combat manual, and the The Lunar Breviary, both updated by the ones in charge of such things. I DON'T need access to our guild's knowledge on Influencing and Debate, or all of the details of Herbology. The secret reason why every trusted shopkeeper is in the desert is something I don't have to know (and if YOU want to know, become a trusted shopkeeper and recieve their Journal).

Realy ALOT can be gained if we can get this book system working right, and I don't just mean in a RP way.