This is basically a expansion on a slight hijack by me in one of the Ideas threads. But I'm extremely interested in hearing opinions on the specialized races right now. Which do you think is the most powerful and why, which would you rather be, if RP considerations were ignored, do you feel they are balanced, should they be balanced. It is questions such as those that I wish to hear answers to.

Data
Base Viscanti

Strength: 13 Dexterity: 10 Constitution: 14 Intelligence: 12 Charisma: 10 Size: 13
Max Stats excluding Size: 59

Master Viscanti

Strength: 11 Dexterity: 8 Constitution: 14 Intelligence: 15 Charisma: 12 Size: 13
Max Stats excluding Size: 60

Brood Viscanti

Strength: 16 Dexterity: 12 Constitution: 16 Intelligence: 9 Charisma: 9 Size: 15
Max Stats excluding Size: 62

Advantages:
o Can breathe poison gas upon reaching level 50.
o Regenerate health and mana while in Tainted land, level 3.
o Immune from poison gas.
o Resistance to poison damage, level 1.
o Resistance to blunt damage, level 1.
o Resistance to cutting damage, level 1.

Disadvantages:
o Heal more slowly from elixirs, level 2.

Base Merian

Strength: 11 Dexterity: 11 Constitution: 10 Intelligence: 16 Charisma: 13 Size: 12
Max Stats excluding Size: 61

Imperial Merian

Strength: 9 Dexterity: 10 Constitution: 10 Intelligence: 18 Charisma: 15 Size: 12
Max Stats excluding Size: 62

Merian Lord

Strength: 16 Dexterity: 14 Constitution: 15 Intelligence: 13 Charisma: 11 Size: 14
Max Stats excluding Size: 69

Advantages:
o Have a racial language, merian.
o Regain equilibrium faster, level 1.
o Regenerate health and mana while in water, level 2.
o Can automatically swim and tread water without taking damage.
o Can breathe underwater.
o Can DIVE into the ocean depths (RISE to come up).
o Resist asphyxiation damage, level 2.

Disadvantages:
o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
o Are susceptible to electricity, level 2.

Base Elfen

Strength: 11 Dexterity: 14 Constitution: 11 Intelligence: 15 Charisma: 15 Size: 11
Max Stats excluding Size: 66

High Elfen

Strength: 10 Dexterity: 12 Constitution: 11 Intelligence: 17 Charisma: 16 Size: 11
Max Stats excluding Size: 66

Elfen Lord

Strength: 15 Dexterity: 16 Constitution: 14 Intelligence: 13 Charisma: 12 Size: 13
Max Stats excluding Size: 70

Advantages:
o Have a racial language, Elfen.
o Regenerate health and mana while in forest environments, Level 1.
o Faster herb balance, level 1.
o Resistance to psychic damage, level 1.

Base Faeling

Strength: 7 Dexterity: 18 Constitution: 9 Intelligence: 15 Charisma: 16 Size: 4
Max Stats excluding Size: 65

Shadowcaster Faeling

Strength: 7 Dexterity: 15 Constitution: 10 Intelligence: 16 Charisma: 16 Size: 5
Max Stats excluding Size: 64

Shadowlord Faeling

Strength: 10 Dexterity: 18 Constitution: 11 Intelligence: 12 Charisma: 13 Size: 6
Max Stats excluding Size: 64

Advantages:
o Shares Elfen racial language.
o Can FLY.
o Regenerate health and mana while in forest environments, Level 2.
o Recover balance more quickly, level 3.
o Heal faster from elixers, level 2.
o Faster herb balance, level 1.

Elfen Lord obviously, massive strength, massive dexterity, massive constitution, excellent intelligence for surge, nice charisma, stacked with further advantages and not a single disadvantage.

They're by far the best warrior race of Lusternia. Merian lords are very good as well, but they still have the fire and lightning weakness to balance out their extreme stats, where as Elfen just don't have any disadvantage to counter theirs.

You'd have to be stupid or zealous to be a viscanti, same with shadowcaster faeling.

Small mistake there, though, in that Brood Viscanti have a base of 12 dexterity, now.

Ahh, I see, fixed it

I'd be a Merian. The high int kicks ass, and the charisma. Makes for excellent damage and psionics, plus the lvl 1 eq recovery is a big bonus. The racial fire weakness is EASILY overcome by several defenses, and the low con is negligable in the hands of a seasoned mage.

No, the specialized races aren't obviously balanced. Stats wise, Elfen Lords are easily up there but High Elfen isn't any spectacular, this is evidenced by so many good Moondancers or Hartstones are Mugwumps, not High Elfen. Imperial Merian and High Elfen also die a lot faster against damage warriors since they both have pitiful constitution, and Merians also have huge susceptibilities as well, to start with (compared to a Master Viscanti with 14 base Con and level 1 cutting/blunt resistance).

It is not simply the warrior-specialized races that aren't balanced, but also the Mage/Guardian ones as well.

Igasho's best, in any(and the only) form.
i'm rascist

if i ever become leader of a commune in some odd occurance, i'm startin' a eugenics program!

You are easily forgetting the electrical weakness, or the fact that the level 1 eq recovery is pitiful nowaday, and how is fire weakness easily overcame when an Aquamancer used to do more than half their own health in one staffcast? Low Con is negligible only against bad fighters, Diamante can instantly kill Geb with Trueheal/Swings from above 3500 health.

Shush, Tendonwhore. Let me live my dream

Now that's just sad.

Base Elfen is better than our specialized Viscanit. I mean dayum. Be better if they were balanced by the final number..no I don't mean make them identical. But a base "Everyone has a base of 63 points split into different attributes"..that would make sure no one was "underpowered" and everyone was still unique. Least it would make sense to me that way, rather than this blatent ..what's the word they use.. oh yeah. Pwng of the Viscanti. *wry chuckle*.

Unspecialized faelings need a downgrade or boost specialized ones.

I'm going to have to say that High Elfen and Elfen Lords/Ladies have an overall advantage over others at this point in time. To begin with, this is their current statistics as provided by Daevos:



Here is some basic analysis when compared to other specialized races:

High Elfen

Pros: 17 Intelligence and 16 Charisma. These are relatively high numbers, and Imperial Merians and Shadowcaster Faelings have similar stats. (18/15, 16/16 respectively). Master Viscanti on the other hand are grossly underpowered in this department (15/12).

Cons: Nothing in particular, although it should be kept in mind that their Constitution is only 11.

Elfen Lord/Lady

Pros: 15 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 14 Constitution. Merian Lords have similar balance (16/14/15) and Brood Viscanti a within the same area (16/12/16). Shadowlord Faeling on the other hand doesn't look too well (10/18/11), but their level 3 balance recovery makes up for it, making them effective speed knights. Now, Intelligence and Charisma are fairly important now too. Elfen Lord/Lady, Merian Lord/Lady, and Shadowlord Faeling have very similar intelligence and charisma, (13/12, 13/11,12/13, respectively). On the other hand Brood Viscanti are -way- behind (9/9).

Cons: Nothing in particular. They have a very balanced, high-end offensive statistic and a very balanced intelligence/charisma statistic.

NOTE: Both High Elfen and Elfen Lord/Lady have minor racial advantages (and they are minor) but no disadvantages.

So it can be concluded that Elfen Lords are extremely well built, and High Elfen are also looking good although their Constitution is lower than Master Viscanti's. Their superior Intelligence and Charisma is supposed to make up for the lack of Constitution though, which balances it out. On the other hand, Master Viscanti's and Brood Viscanti's low Intelligence/Charisma is -supposed- to balance out by their tankiness.

Unfortunately it doesn't.

From the analysis above, it can first be seen that Brood Viscanti don't have as a balanced offensive statistic as all the other specialization. However, this is made up by their superior Strength and Constitution. But, Brood Viscanti have -horrid- Intelligence and Charisma. This is supposedly made up by their tankiness, the level 1 resistance to poison, cutting and blunt.

Unfortunately the level 1 resistances are completely nullified by the leve 2 sipping penalty, skewing the balance in favor towards the other races. This also applies to the Master Viscanti, who have lower Intelligence and Charisma which is supposed to be made up by their tankiness. Ladies and gentlemen, although the Viscanti may look tanky it is simply a misconception. The level 2 sipping penalty is crippling. With Viscanti's overall lower stats in conjunction with the level 2 sipping penalty, level 1 resistances really doesn't make up for it.

Faelings make up for their low Constitution with their sipping bonus. Their casters have high Intelligence and Charisma. Their fighters have great Dexterity and level 3 balance recovery.

Imperial Merians make up for their low Constitution with their superb Intelligence and high Charisma. Merian Lords/Ladies have an overall balanced, good stats. I personally don't know how painful their suspectibility to fire and electricity are, so I won't comment on that.

High Elfen make up for their low Constiution with their high-end Intelligence and Charisma. They have no disadvantages. Elfen Lords/Ladies also have an extremely balanced stats, just like the Merian Lord/Ladies. However, unlike the Merians, they don't have any disadvantages.

Master Viscanti is supposed to make up for their lower Charisma and Intelligence with their tankyness. Although their Constitution is high, it is severely crippled by the level 2 sipping penalty, and the level 1 resistances aren't enough to offset this penalty. Brood Viscanti have good offensive statistics like all the other specialized warriors, but their Intelligence and Charisma is sub-par. This portion it supposed to be made up by their superior combat capabilities, which is supposed to be the resistances.... Which is offset by the sipping penalty.

Quick rundown:

Faelings have disadvantages that are offset by advantages.
Merians are fairly balanced although I'm really don't know how crippling their fire and electricity problem is.
Elfens have extremely balanced, high-end statistics and have no disadvantages.
Viscanti are perceived by many to be tanky races but they really aren't. Otherwise they're in good shape.

I play a Viscanti, and although it's nice to know that I have more health than many other specialized races, it doesn't really matter because we sip like crap. That is all I have to say.

Giving equal weight to dexterity (and perhaps even charisma) strikes me as misleading. I'm sure most warriors would rather have one additional strength and constitution of the merian lord as opposed to two additional dex for the elfen lord.

Also, when your constitution score is low, one or two points is the difference between fighting a warrior and never even having a chance to defend yourself. Most imperial merian would trade 1 int for the 1 con from the elfen. Master viscanti might have a sip penalty, but compared to the merian, they trade 3 int for 4 con, no elemental weaknesses, one of the best racial regens in the game, and resistance to warrior damage. You don't drop those things in one hit. It's an amazingly huge advantage over imperial merian. It means you get a chance to fight, hinder, run, whatever.

Shadowcaster faeling is a niche race at best. What wiccan cares about a balance bonus? Better to go with a high-con race than a 10-con race with a sip bonus. For the druids, the extinct breed of runists might appreciate the race, but I think Glomdoring is down to one heavily-trained runeslinger. Shadowlord faelings get the option of being a speed knight (although arguably the best race for speed knights), or no knight at all.

No, actually, I think they're all quite well balanced.

Dexterity and Charisma are extremely important for even Warriors. Dexterity effects not only our chance to dodge, but also our chance to afflict with wounds. And Charisma not only effects things related to influencing which is extremely important no matter your archetype, but it also effects your ability to survive against Telepaths.

This is exactly the perception I'm talking about. We look tanky. We really do. But we're not. The minor resistances and the natural regen simply isn't enough to offset the sipping penalty. I have to say, the regen DOES help, but you can't count on it, and the resistances are too minor - it's simply not enough in my opinion to make up for it.

EDIT: And we also get penalized in our Intelligence/Charisma department because of being so -tanky-.

Ever been killed before you even knew someone walked into the room, even when fully deffed?

Even if viscanti would have 20 con and lvl2 resistances to everything, a race with 14 con and no sip penalty would still be tankier.

I don't think you people have any clue of how devastating a lvl2 sip penalty is.

So what difrence it is?

I've been killed in 1.5 seconds before - yes. Not by a single person though. If you don't have time to sip back the lost health as a faeling (who have tremendous sipping bonus) within that instant period, more than likely it won't matter too much whatever race you are. Sure, Viscanti may have a small opening to escape with their superior health but keep two things in mind:

1. People chase you down.
2. People hinder your movements.
3. Our tumble is slower than yours.

So survival chances are pretty low no matter who you are.

What is difrence in numbers?
Like insted 600 i heal only 400.

I have no idea what big difrence it is.

Edit: Or in percents. Like level 2 sip is 20% or whatever.