Here's a question for you all: What makes Mages and Druids, and Wiccans and Guardians different?

We know that these archetypes are essentially equivalent to each other for communes and cities, but are there design differences to each pair, and what are they?

I don't want to compare individual skills, and let this turn into a rant - I just want to see if there are other overall distinctions that I have missed.

For instance, at the moment I would differentiate archetypes in the following way.

Wiccans
- More powerful defensively
- Dependent on environment
- Greater mobility

Guardian
- More powerful offensively
- Not dependent on environment
- Slightly greater interference in others' mobility

=====

Druids
- Greater emphasis on afflicting?
- Maybe also greater mobility (commune vs city difference perhaps?)

Mages
- Greater emphasis on damage?
- Also greater hindrance/summoning?

No-one has any thoughts?

How do Wiccans have greater mobility given the changes to flow?

Well, true. Maybe that difference has been mostly removed.

I'm really curious about the distinction between Druids and Mages though, as they seem pretty identical in most areas to me.

Eh.. only difference I could think of would be elevation attacks, but I'm not sure how true that is. We're not including secondary afflicting skills (Runes, etc) and the support (totem spirits/illusions), right?

Moondancers may be stronger defensively than Nihilists, but Shadowdancers are certainly weaker defensively than Celestines. Wiccans as a whole deal more with damage and mana drain, whereas guardians deal with more reliable afflicting.

Druids I see as just the opposite of that. We have more reliable afflicting and mana drain, but anyone who dies to cudgel would have died to staffcast a long time ago.

Well, it's something like this:

Mages:

-kill with Damage
-few afflictions
-no real way to drain Mana
-Hindering the movement in their demesne for friends and foes

Druids
-kill with Bleeding/sap/not at all
-many afflictions
-many ways to drain mana
-Bettering the Movement of allies in their demesnes (with flow at least, briars can be annoying)


Yeah, I am a bit tired so that's all I could say at the moment.

On what basis? Shadowdancers get Totems (passive regenerations), sprite, barkskin, nightkiss, garb (poison/magic resistance?), etc.

Celestines get like halo... which is crap.

Ethelon has said in the past (i'll leave it up to him to correct me if wrong) that he takes like a LOT less damage as a Shadowdancer versus a Celestine.

Yeah, Shadowdancer defence is certainly higher than that of Celestines, since Numen costs 4p, and just can't be kept up unless to bash.

I take a lot more damage as a Blacktalon than I did as a Celestine, and the defense is roughly equal for a Shadowdancer. Telira was a tanky critter, but Night had little to do with that.

Totem regeneration is roughly equivalent to Honour regeneration when alone, and higher when in a group. Totem regeneration is also more limited.

Halo, compared to barkskin, is not crap. It's not the 25% that Magnagora says it is, but it's still decent. I can't say I ever bothered to really push the numbers for either it or barkskin, though. Celestines are also likely to walk around with all the benefits of benediction (think maiden), which covers the magic resistance above and beyond halo. Garb pales in comparison. Nightkiss brings the base resistance up to par with a low level Celestine, but that's at trans. On the way to trans, the same Celestine picked up Numen and Trueheal.

Mind you, this isn't a balance issue. The stronger offense of the Shadowdancer entourage makes up for it.

It's arguable whether a Wiccan entourage is stronger than a Celestine's angel or a Nihilist's demon. I'd say Moondancers are definitely weaker in entourage, not sure about Shadowdancers.

I'm sorry but you are just blatantly wrong.

Barkskin + Night Kiss >>>>>>>> Halo.

In fact, Night Kiss >>>>> Halo.

Numen isn't really that much of a defense imo. You get 50% damage reduction for like 45 seconds that costs lots of power to cast. Ideally, you want that power to be used to kill something not save your ass from dying instantly.

Furthermore, Garb is ~= magic protection provided by benediction.