What does everything think about races for guardian pvp? I'm tempted to lean towards a speedy race, such as aslaran for those fast aeons and wicked fast quickened amissio's, but what does everyone think about a tanky race like Taurian or Loboshi? Is it even all that critical for guardians to have that extra speed in the first place, or could the mad tankiness serve them best?

There's two ways a guardian can go with races. Offensive or Defensive. Loboshigaru is hands down the best defensive race, and Mugwump and Aslaran are the two best offensive.

EDIT: I've re-examined Taurians and they work very well defensively. I always thought they had a balance penalty or something.

If you can't keep your enemy hindered, it doesn't really matter how tanky you are. Go for better offense, meaning a faster race.

And you will die in two Ixions swings

Loboshigaru is best for Celestine pvp. Just look at Amaru heh.
If you can trans magic, resilience and guild skills and you would need to use cosmicfire Lucidian is good race too.

Being a celestine myself before i would say Aslaran cause as Ixion said if cant hinder fast enough your pretty much screwed.

If you're taking up tarot, I'd say go for being tanky, human at higher levels or viscanti are good as well.

At least being tanky helps in group fights a lot.

Amaru said if he was going to pick a race as a Celestine solely for combat, he'd do Taurian... but he just hated the idea.





Taurians come off as a better bet to me because if the goal is defensive, they are freaking tanks: the cutting and eletric resistance is great for Celestines because they are actually not that tanky compared to Nihilists, Shadowdancers, or Moondancers. The health regen is just level 1, but with honour up, level 2... and for 300cr, you can get level 3 with an artie ring, and 16 con.

Taurian can also get 17 strength (18 with geburah), which makes for a decent shieldstun (a very common Amaru tactic that works quite well with angel).

The only weakness to Taurian is the size, which will make for slow writhing and tumbling; however, the writhing can be countered with tiperhet.

With double enlarge, hanged man, and web... it shouldn't too be too hard to hinder Ixion as a Taurian... which has mad resistances to the damage that does slip through.

If he cant do that to me now as a human i doubt he can do it as a Taurian. With me being a wounding knight i really wouldnt care how high your con is since im most likely gonna get legtendon and start aiming for behead by the third attack. As a fast Celestine with tarot you have more options for a kill since i know as a human you arnt getting absolve off as much even if you use quickening.

What makes you think Celestines are less tanky than Nihilists? It's not true.

There's not much difference in tankiness, but I think Nihilists have a stronger defense.

Putre works best on Nihilists since they don't have the huge max health of Ur'guards. Shackles is one the best defensive abilities in the game. Ghost is a very strong escape skill, and if all else fails and they die, they Lich.

Putrefaction is almost never worth it in 1vs1. Besides, Celestines have numen which is actually more powerful, thing is that those skills usage is so different it's hard to compare them. But if anything, numen increases their tankiness a lot, lot more than putrefaction does. And, like it was said, they get one regen level which Nihilists don't have.

As for the rest you mentioned, I think it was about tankiness, not defense/hindering overall. If we go into that, you might be right, I don't know. But don't Celestines have stun, knockdown and paralysis for their angel?

Yes, I specifically mentioned most of that stuff was about defense rather than tankiness. And 'hindering' is part of defense, by the way.

I don't have putrefaction so I'm not sure how good it is, but I hear people say it's great vs knights and for bashing.

Numen is incredible for defense, especially against groups. However, when you use numen you don't have the power to pull off your best moves.

Also, I think even a Nihilist would agree that shackles beats any hindering on an angel. Paralysis is almost nothing on trans Discipline.

Amaru can kill just about everyone if not everyone as a Loboshigaru Celestine. Furthermore, a Taurian/Loboshigaru with high strength can time their angels: you shieldstun right before the angel will hit and it fires off its two afflicts while the person is stunned (Amaru used to like anorexia/stupidity). Given the length of the stun is based on strength, if timed correctly you can recover balance relatively quickly after the angel has just fired and follow up with aeon, etc.

Celestines also have Puer to help with wounding. They can force ANYONE to run quickly with heretic/infidel/inquisition (as the only defense is to run), buying them time to heal.

And finally, the ultimate Celestine strategy is Inquisition. Inquisition is in NO way easier to pull off with faster equilibrium or balance because it has its own timer. Once Inquisition hits, you toss Soulless, and it is over 99% of the time.

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Who are you in-game?

Torak, Eiru, Thorgal, etc. all used putrefaction 1-on-1 versus damage knights. Putrefaction has no power cost and lasts until it is stripped or removed by the caster.

Putrefaction gives - 45% - reduction of cutting and blunt damage. It has a health drain.

Numen gives - 50% - reduction of all forms of damage. It costs power and lasts around 45 seconds.

And finally, Celestine angel has kneel, which is a -1- second stun that makes you kneel. It is absolute crap.

When i spar Amaru he just shieldstun whores everytime hes in trouble or just use it alot so in the case of the person asking which race to go to he doesnt have shieldstun. Also to get soulless you have to block off the room somehow so they cant run also a reason to have tackle as a knight to take them out the room without there angel. Ok i see where they can use puer but, most dont since they are to busy staying alive from knight damage. Inquisition might not be easier to get off with faster balance but that is not our entire offence and i never needed it, all i needed was heretic for the extra afflictions. The faster balance is mostly for a tarot user with faster moon, aeon, soulless and hangedman you can keep a knight extermly busy.

Can you beat Amaru? No.

The idea that he "shieldstun" whores just proves my point. It is a highly effective skills for Guardians and with races that have high strength, it works every better. Furthermore, Inquisition gives like a 6 second stun in which time you will have numerous afflictions and a zap from the angel. You don't need to get rid of an exit for Soulless to work with that.

And the tarot speed may help or may not help. I'm pretty sure it will do you next to nothing against most top notch fighters like Daevos, Murphy, etc. Absolutely nothing.

FYI Putre utterly sucks unless you are fighting about 15+ guards or two Supernals at the same time.

Last time I used putrefaction to my benefit was when I was bashing hammerhead sharks and there were like 4 or 5 in the room. Dive, hit, hit, raise and heal. Repeat. I got that one extra hit thanks to putre.

Numen, I imagine, would be extremely useful to kill strategic, powerful mobs like Supernals sort. Within those 45 seconds you'll land like what, 15-20 hits while taking only half damage.

As for pvp, putrefaction's useful only for high damage knights. And it doesn't help with elemental part of damage from runes. Just how many knights with a really high damage without runes do we have?

I might be behind the times, but I thought they changed Putrefaction to be useful again?