What the hell is the meaning of this? One round to remove illusionary terraint, yet SEVEN to take down a damn sapling? Is this supposed to be fair?

I think the point was that Saplings don't stop enemy druids from demesning, while terrain does stop other mages. Still 7 choppings is way to much to make up for the realitycheck

Saplings should die in ONE chop from anyone, no matter the situation or statistics, just like realitycheck takes ONE try. I don't think the elementary rules of balance are that complicated. One on the left side, one on the right side, that is balanced, one on the left side, seven on the right side, is not balanced.

Tell me, with Wisp going through monoliths and happily being abused, and saplings taking 7 chops.. how is a mage supposed to break a druid's demesne?

This is a bug. Saplings are supposed to take one chop outside of a natural forest. I'm almost sure some admin said this in the first "saplings are unfair" thread.

however taking it to only one chop wouldn't be fair either. Aslong as an enemy druid can simply force without having to remove it I could go for 2 chops - 4 chops (you have balance right hand, balance left hand)

or better yet, make saplings foresttype specific, no forcing them, but one chop to take down

Then have enemy druids take 7 chops, and mages take one chop. Your argument doesn't even come close to justifying this situation.

Either have mages take one chop for saplings, or have realitycheck take 7 tries to break illusionary terrain as well. That is the only way to balance, enemy druids vs druids has nothing to do with druid vs mage, let alone justifying it.

Oh, I also think the type of axe, strength, etc. might now factor into it. Not sure... but it shouldn't take 7 chops regardless. Hell, an elder Moonhart/Ravenwood doesn't take but like 8.

Strength and type of axe should most definitely not affect chopping, nothing affects realitycheck either. One chop to take it down, no more, or 7 realitychecks for terrain.

And if it is a bug, then let them fix it, because people certainly aren't decent enough to not abuse design flaws, bugs and exploits. They'll abuse anything and everything possible in their advantage.

Aye, it sounds like a bug. For reasonable strength, it should be 2 chops or less for a sapling outside natural forest, I heard.

I imagine it takes mages more than one action to remove it, because enemy druids can ignore them completely.

That's just the thing: there is no abuse with a design flaw. You may not like this, you may claim Estarra told you in-person or made some mystery post on forums that you cannot find when request, etc. However, a design flaw is a very subjective thing. In truth, only the designer can assess as to whether said flaw exists or not. As a result, people are not at fault if something is later decided to be changed.

There most certainly was a BUG recently where staves were firing off at 2 seconds each. Many people who witnessed this recognized there was a problem. Are they are fault for using their staff afterwards? A notable design flaw, ;ichdom originally gave grace. Did every person who used lichdom and then gained grace 'abuse lichdom'? Whether you want to argue yes or no in any of these cases, the point is that no one was punished for using them because there was nothing stated to clarify as to whether there was or was not problem.

If there is a problem, the administration can (and has) announced/posted in-game to not use a certain ability. For example, swoop was killing people instantly. There was an in-game announcement to not use it and it was quickly fixed. If the fixing would have taken longer, I imagine there would have been some sort of announcement; however, when the administration does not make an announcement or a post, it leads me (and I feel the general public) to believe that whereas something "may" change, it is fine in its current form.

This may not please you, Thorgal, but simply because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean someone is abusing something. I have a message from the in-game administrators who specifically state that using wisp is NOT abuse. In fact, they went so far to capitalize the word "not" just as I have. Whether it will change or not is not a consideration. We like in a dynamic, evolving environment. Things are always changing. By your definition, everyone is guilty of abuse.

We are looking at druids versus mages. Nothing else has to do with this but city versus commune. It takes one short equilibrium recovery to remove illusionary terrain, it should take one chop to take down a sapling, why isn't this the case, other than blatant imbalance, what advantage in demesning do mages have, that justifies such imbalance in breaking a druid's demesne?

I cannot see a single reason why it should take more than one chop to take down a sapling, even if other druids can ignore them, what the hell does it have to do with it?

Demesne summon?

Wisp?

Has nothing to do with the context: Mages versus Druids. Druids cannot wisp.

woo Narsrim

by the way saplings grow into wood commodities, right?

if thats right wouldn't it be fair for them to be harder to remove than illusionary terrain?

just thinking that if thats right and saplings were changed to one-hit-wonders then seren and glom would be blitz-raided for wood every time they grew some saplings with little chance of minimalizing the damage as the only limitation would be your balance recovery.

with a good sized party during a quiet time in the commune this could mean the... de-sapling of an entire forest (just think what seren could do to glom during those times when no one appears to be around)

if thats wrong or illusionary terrain produces a commodity as valuable as wood ignore everything please

The point is that the only time that breaking a enemy demesne is really required is in group engagements. When's the last time you've seen a mage fighting a demesne war against a druid one on one? I've never heard or seen of such a case, simply because it is a such extreme waste of time.

Right now, wisp is vastly superior to demesne summon. And mages have absolutely no inherent advantages over druids. Other than that they are actually safe from being instantly summoned in their own demesne.

may i ask why people bring a wiccan skill into an arguement about druids vs mages?

First, it isn't a matter of when the last time you or I saw X. As far as I'm concerned, there is little to no "one-on-one" fighting in Lusternia save some rare FFA. As for wisp being vastly better than demesne summon, it requires two people. I point you to what Raezon has said:

Because it is impossible to view them separately in the context of every practical engagement.

But if it's druids vs mage then we should bring in every skill available to cities...
EDIT: if we're using that logic or are mages so vastly superior that we require a druid and a wiccan working together to bring them down? (sorry for tone )

also does anyone have an answer to my question about wood comms?