http://www.holylemon.com/NightBeforeXmas.html

Y'all have yourselves a happy non-specific, non-denominational winter holiday.

You know, I was just thinking the other night how silly this all is. I get more and more curious who the people they are really trying to not offend is. No way to explain this save in detail, so sorry for all the background. I've started to become more insulted by the idea that I should be behaving differnetly during this time of year than I ever would be by having large public celebrations of certain people's holidays.


Now for the background. In sandiego they changed a "christmas parade" into a "holiday parade", now they have changed it back to a "Christmas parade" because of this a Jewish group, (and some other random group) are boycotting the parade and saying how insulted and left out they feel. And my responce is -good! You shouldn't be going to a "holiday parade" if your jewish any more than youshould be going to a Christmas parade, because everybody knows that the holiday is christmas, and they are just going to throw in other cultural things in there to make it not look like christmas. However, if it wasn't for christmas, they would not be having such parades. During the spring there is the holiday of Easter, and the Jewish holiday of Pesach, and the Spring Soltice(sp?) holiday, yet there are no parades nor public celebrations in the cities for the Spring solstice/equinox... So yeah.. Three cheers for calling a spade a spade.

All this christmas vs holiday stuff is total crap. I mean, HOLIDAY TREES? Seriously....

Are any of these Jewish person's tax dollars being used to fund anything related to this parade? If so, I think they have a right to complain.

Are Christian/ anyone else's tax dollars funding any jewish events?

tis a silly argument anyway. We all contribute taxes to our governments and local governments, and a lot of the time they put money into things which we wouldn't like. *thinks about the Iraq war* Might as well let whichever religious denomination it is who's holiday is being celebrated enjoy it and not destroy their fun.

They can have their fun - and they can pay for it too. Your example is also quite flawed. There is no a separation of politics and state. There IS a separation of church and state.

Exactly.

I can't believe you are defending this, Narsrim, everybody knows what the holiday is for, they're just trying to shamelessy rename it to make a jab at christians. They're trying to tell the christians 'You are wrong, and you can't celebrate this holiday.'
Even if they change it to some other name, we all know the reason it exists, so don't bother.

I don't believe in God, be it christian ro whatever, but my taxes are used to pay xmas lights everywhere.
I don't mind much about taht, and i am not going to force them to call xmas "national non religious holiday that happens to fall on 25th december"

can't believe you reposted that still with the typo in it.

Can you imagine the extra bureaucratic costs if everyone's taxes were tracked so that their money would not be put into things they did not approve of. I'm sorry, Narsrim. But there really isn't another way round it. Sometimes we end up paying for things we don't want. Why not just accept it.

P.S What's this separation between church and state you're nattering on about? Given that church is part of culture and culture is part of state, I don't see that distinction anything like as clearly as you do.

... I agree with Narsrim. Whether or not this is a sign of the impending logical collapse of the universe is an exercise for the reader.

Look, I think people who get "offended" over everything are kind of batty. But at the same time, in theory, we shouldn't be spending public money on a religious celebration of one particular religion. On the other hand, it's arguable that Christmas is no longer a religious holiday. They should call it a "holiday parade" instead of a "Christmas parade" simply by the fact that it no longer has anything to do with the birth of Christ.

Disclaimer: If it matters either way, I am not a Christian.

If any, true christians should be worrying about the bastardisation of something as serious as the birth of their God into a machine of producing money that starts decorating the streets on november. But starting that line of thought would be

I hate parades. I have absolutely 0 desire to see one. So, should my tax dollars not go to any parades? After all, I don't derive any benefit from such parades. Heck, I don't even like Christmas. So I don't want my tax dollars to go to any Christmas decorations around the city.

And its not really arguable at all that Christmas isn't a religious holiday... How can you say Christmas has nothing to do with the birth of Christ? Yeah, it has become very different from what it used to be, with the commercialization and all, but no birth of Christ = no Christmas.

I think that if we're going to have a Christmas parade, there should be a Jesus baloon. I mean, how did Santa get associated with the birth of Christ? How did eggs and rabbits get associated with his death?

I know there are actual historical reasons behind them, but our holidays are very watered down nowadays.

In my country Santa got associated with Christ due to americans doing it. We also imported the xmas trees (wich of course aren't very mediterranean). Right now, we're in the process of importing halloween because that's more fun than going to the cementiry for all saints day (the 1st of november). For now, no eggs and rabbits on sight, we still plainly celebrate His death (very colourfully, just take a look at Easter in Sevilla when it's the time, and the processions, and everything) because eggs aren't so televisive as guys whiping themselves for penitence or carrying enourmous figures on their backs and we eat bunnies (beware Joli).

We used to celebrate the coming of the 3 wise kings, that went to give gifts to the newborn God. But that gave kids only a couple days to enjoy their presents, so we moved it to the 24th of december, so they could have two weeks and hopefully ask their parents for more gifts.

Man, I'd love to see a Jesus balloon. That'd be pretty funny. They are watered down, but they are still religious holidays, and that can't be denied.

Wow, talk about cultural diffusion.

Santa Clause isn't associated with the birth of Christ. The entire idea of Santa Clause first stemmed from Pagan beliefs that were incorporated into Christianity to make up holidays. Furthermore, Christmas itself wasn't even celebrated on Decemeber 25th in the US as a whole until after WWII