I'd like to know what the forumbase thinks of it. An example is the vampire class in Aetolia.

I don't mean a duplicate of vampires, but how would you feel about the idea of an advanced archetype that can only be taken if you are admitted by existing members of that archetype?

I hate elitism and peer exclusion in all its forms, so this is an easy choice for me.

I'd be fine with it, but it should actually be exclusive if it's going to be something like that, and have some mechanic to limit the wily-nily adding of new members. Vampires weren't exactly an elitist class, any newbie who wanted could get embraced pretty easily.

Being that I was the first GM of the Bloodborn, it is worth noting the the idea of an "elite class" failed miserably and it is one of the worst classes of all time.

The idea with the Bloodborn, however, stemmed initially from the fact that vampires as a whole had no guild. It was utter chaos and with no in-game mechanism to control, the class went from being "dark and gothic" to outright retarded. However, given that vampires were already undead and at this point there was no cure, the most feasible thing to do was adapt and change.

You will note, however, that the Bloodborn is also requesting changes. They can already enthrall by their own mechanism (unlike in the past) and are in the process of gaining a skill to turn a mortal into Bloodborn thus removing the pre-Consanguine embracement.

As a result, the idea you are proposing only existed in Aetolia because of poor planning. It was -terrible- thing to have to deal with and it made the guild very difficult to effectively administrate.

Bad idea.

I would like to see new guilds and cities begin as 'elitist'. Members would only be allowed in via invitation, allowing them to establish some structure and draft some files, ect. before the novices begin to pour in. Would only last for a period of 2-3 IG years. Did they do something like that with Glomdoring?

I wouldn't mind 'permanent' elitist organizations as long as there were strict systems in place to keep the size of it in check and they kept to their roleplay. Otherwise it would just degenerate into a fancy social club. "Haha, I'M in the Kethuru Cult and YOU'RE NOT. Let's go idle at the nexus, High Priestness of Illith! lmaonewbs".

Yeah...for like 1 RL day, IIRC.

Well, I haven't proposed anything yet. I just wanted to get some feedback on a possible route I was toying with, but was very unsure about. I was playing around with the idea of having a quest-based induction, rather than player-based, but essentially the elitist effect would be the same. There would be guilds in each commune and city that anyone could join, but it would not be open to newbies.

The advantage in my mind is that you can saddle the archetype with unique penalties and boons that are more significant and meaningful than other archetypes because it is left for advanced players to knowingly choose. It would allow me to add more complexity and intricacy because it would not need to be designed to be quite as newbie-friendly, and it would fit the role that I'm envisaging in that it is a significant choice (ie, not just turn 16 and go, why the hell not?).

The disadvantages I can see, some of which have already been mentioned, are that you are placing a large amount of responsibility in the hands of the first players, which can mean that the chance of success or failure of the guilds would be much more volatile. The fact that newbies cannot immediately join a guild that might interest them also devalues their experience, setting up a perceived elitism in the game globally. Also, as joining/leaving an elitist archetype must carry significance (else it isn't really much different from what is already about), it can sometimes encourage stagnation and discontent within.

It was just something I wanted to hear other opinions on.

I wouldn't like a system-based quest, but.. I wouldn't mind an elitist class if it holds strong siginificance with joining and leaving like Elryn said.

In the same token I'd want it to have a VERY strong roleplay tied into the game and that roleplay to be upheld.

At the start vampires were extremely elitist... then a few just went crazy embracing anyone.

If they are giving a way to make a mortal a Bloodborn... that defeats the whole purpose of the guild... I was one of two people that fought to have it a vampire only guild.

I just have HUGE misgivings that anything like this can work...or even that it should. I just think all guilds should be open to everyone.

I once had an idea for a classless game(balancing is hard, but possible) where players with large clans(like we have great houses) could actually design and purchase their own skill sets(high price so the admin don't get bogged down with stupid skill requests, but if you have 50+ actice people in a clan it only takes a few credits from each) and their skill would be private to that clan only for 6 RL months before being open to any players...

The problem I see with that is that you would eventually have so many skillsets that in order to be a top-tier fighter you would need to spend upward of 10000 credits to get all the useful abilities from them all.

And how about special "RP" (let's call it that) skills in the guilds skillset that are not available until you either have high enough GR (just like those special influence skills based on CR) or high guild officials bestow them upon you.

Like we could have some ritualistic things in Nihilism and something in Necromancy that would let us feel more like a true necromancers. Could involve some items, skills themselves should do -something- but it wouldn't go beyond convenience (nothing combat useful). Come on, it'd be neat.

Umm... why? You would still be limited to the same number of skills, you would just have more choices.

Seconded

In Glomdoring we had about 7 days to pick people before novices were allowed in... it was terrible! We kept on asking for more people to be given positions so that we could have people to deal with all the requests to join.

The blacktalon was a little bit different since there was nobody to take charge the first day.

I would absolutely LOVE to see something along this lines incorporating the different Houses of Magnagora, having each "House" specialize in one thing and having it being a regulated elitist branch of Magnagora.

Narsrim, if I can draw on your experience... what were the biggest problems with vampires in Aetolia, aside from not having a centralized guild structure?

I'm all for it, if you can keep it restricted enough. I'd suggest that every member has to give up a part of his personal power permanently when recruiting a new member (But he gets something in return, namely that the new member is bound to serve him.) Using Aetolia's vampires as an example, embracing someone would involve having your maximum blood reduced by 5%, but you'd be able to summon anyone you embraced at any time, draw blood from someone you embraced magically and without resistance, cause damage to them, and compulse them into doing things. Breaking this bloodbond would be horribly difficult. That way, vampirehood would be restricted to the people who really want to take a deep plunge and would have to be roleplayed.
This is JUST AN EXAMPLE! Please, don't ever implement vampires in Lusternia. Ripping off Anne Rice once is enough.

My suggestion for an exclusive archetype in Lusternia (Which is just an example too, but it fits in better with Lusternia's theme) would be the Taint Cult, an archetype which channels the Taint directly from beyond the Seals, drawing it from Kethuru Himself. To join, you would have to be branded by the Taint, permanently reducing all your stats by one (Except intelligence), and setting your Charisma to 10. The archetype would be planned so that the skills would work just fine with the lower skill levels, but members would be sucky influencers and they would suffer if they left the cult. Recruiting another cult member further reduces statistics, but any cultist can leech health from any cultist he recruited, at any distance, anytime, even across the planes. Killing someone by use of this power would be possible, but the victim gains suspect regardless of where he is. Cultists would own obedience to their masters, and masters who severely abuse their servants would end up being punished by their own masters, which form a chain all the way up to the first cultist. It would be possible to switch places with your master in the hierarchy, simply by killing him repeatedly.