I know that in IRE games in general switching your org or guild is general frowned upon. Being in an org counts as being loyal, switching too often would show you have no loyalty..

But why not? This is actually a game, not all our actions need to be totally RL justifyable and logical.

Especially in Lusternia where there's a major org vs org conflict, why not take people in if they say they want to help and let them help? In a game you play where you think you have the most fun.. if that is by switching guilds then why not? There is always the lesson loss to regulate it anyway.

Of course, with this I mean people who are serious about it.. and also not those who have serious character issues.

I'm sure I forgot to mention quite a few things in my argument now, but think about it. Why do we have to treat Lusternia like RL in the first place?

Discuss


EDIT1: Yes Ixions topic sparked this thought but this topic is unrelated to his decision, whatever it will be.

Hm, I -just- had an in-game discussion about this kind of thing (unrelated to Ixion, actually, I'd been wondering it since Thorgal asked me about it a while ago ) and I know what you mean. I think it's a case of "if the person is a complete detriment and would cause more headaches than they're worth" they won't be let in. Which is justifiable OOC too. The one trying to join is the only person whose enjoyment needs to be considered. But if not, there doesn't seem to really be a set of values that would stop a really reformed person from joining.

"Set joining waiting periods" are just bad in general though. Avoid where possible.

To be honest, it is a case by case thing.

For example:

Daevos, Ixion, Kaervas - While having always been enemies, they are not idiots, and they work hard for the Org they are in. If they were to one day make the choice to join Serenwilde and prove they wished to join, by acting towards the good of the Serenwilde for a time. Odds are they would stand a chance of being let in.

Marcalo, Nikua, any of Guido's characters - Do I really need to define why they wouldn't be let in?

Yes Celest has a one year waiting period on guilds too. You would be let into the city but had to wait one year for a guild.. meaning you'd be skill-less for almost two weeks.. First thing I did as Ambassador was to delete that .

We are/were all playing Lusternia because it's fun to do. Who would play a game that's boring and sucks totally? So why add in 'regulations' to stop people from joining when all you do with that is decrease the play fun? Like the guild thing Celest had..

EDIT: Watch your language. ~Shiri~

Yea its a bit silly to me that conevrsions in one side are quite easy when in another are realy tough.

Like if I would like to join ur'guards i think i wouldnt have much troubles with it. Or am i wrong? I dont know how Ravlok see Ekard. But i think i had quite high notes in Ixion and Alger eyes.

And if Ixion would want to join Paladins it will be really hard. Some people are like OMFG NO!

Thats just weird, the Serenwilde approach is to say, make sure they have a guild that wants them so they can be a useful member. Who came up with that guild idea in celest?

Well that's why I said I'm not speaking about people who have character issues.
In general I think it would be better to consider: is this guy an idiot that will make peoples like hell or not? If not then why not give him/her a chance -regardless- of how many orgs/guilds he/she's had before?

If the char was kicked, then that again is another problem. But if it's just someone who'd like to jump a lot? People often can't make up their minds and just -need- to try everything beforet they settle down. I don't see what harm that would cause in Lusternia.

Serenwilde has a "get unenemied to guilds, Commune, Patrons, Moonspirit" policy. Then a 5 day referendum, in which time everyone can voice their opinions, and the person trying to get in can submit a letter explaining why they would like to be in Serenwilde, how they would be a benefit to Serenwilde, yadda yadda.

Odds are if a person just opts for the referendum right away, after doing the unenemy stuff, they will not have much chance. If they spend a week or so homeless seeking sanctuary within the Serenwilde and aiding it, via powerquests, influencing, defense, their chances will greatly improve.

I think it depends more on the actions of the person rather then where they are from, if someone goes out and raids somewhere of yours everyday, kills guards, attacks countless member of your city so on so forth. Why the hell would you let them in? I don't see the logic in it personally, yeah sure it may damper their mood but RP wise I would never let someone who has slain Demonlords join the Nihilists..(Just an example)

5? Bah, I had it at 1 because it used to be like 3 and I thought that was too long to force people to wait. My reasoning was that if there's a good reason someone shouldn't be allowed in, it's likely to be widespread enough that SOMEONE can come up with it in a month + however long it takes the inducter and the person to meet.

Whatever works I guess.

Sorry for the double post, but this is a different point so I'll address it seperately.

Thorgal asked me about this a while ago, because I was operating under the same principle. But the way he put it was "if someone's reformed, and they're prepared to make up and work for you and undo their mistakes, what are you gaining by refusing them"? If someone's not a detriment, what is the real benefit to the Nihilists of refusing someone entry? I think he had a point.

The only drawback to this is that it's really hard to see certain well-played characters change their outlook on life. So it would be really jarring RP-wise to change orgs to the polar opposite without proper planning. And I can understand the criticism.

Personally, I had an idea based on the fact that Magnagora seems to have way to many of the good players. This is based on the fact that quick games have autobalance built in, but this one can't. Here's an idea.

Re-loom.

Once (and only once) you can have the fates retwist your life. A fate jumper forgets his old life and begins anew, keeping his relative power. This is what would happen.

* The old character is destroyed permanently--something in the honours title remains there to respect the memory. (Basically, the system copies the character's basics). Once you do this, there is no going back.
* You can rechoose sex, race and class.
* The new character is of the same level as the old one.
* The new character has as many lessons as the old one--fresh, without worring about lesson pools, etc.
* The new characters artifacts are destroyed but he gets as many credits as his artifacts would have cost.
* All Existing Gold is transfered.
* You must pick a organization that is not your own, and optionally one that the admins feel need help more. The admins could even offer incentives if a community is having trouble--300 credits for the first five people over level 80 to reloom as a celestian. You would also have to commit to being part of community for a certain time, so as to encourage game balance.

If that could be pulled off, that might be a good way to help balance the game without awkward org-jumping.

The point is they worked all those years against you, and say "Oh I am converted, I vow this that and this blah blah insert things here" Wow yeah thanks for that, but you helped do how much against me? Prove you have changed and maybe I would consider it. It's not about helping your org all the time, it is about keeping some principles. Think about it from this point of view, if a terrorist walks up to an army member and says 'I am sorry for everything, can I join you?' what do you think would happen?

Until i decide to leave the guild, you can think of me as the perma-GM. That's just years of habit. Ekard we would let you in, provided you were serious about the commitment.

Oh, and who said no?

That analogy doesn't work so much because commitments in Lusternia are a lot thinner than a person to his country IRL, I'd think. It's just the way of the world. Unlike in the real world where you can't just change countries based on your idealism due to financial problems or whatever the hell else, in Lusternia where you live is based on what you believe. If you really have gone back on your beliefs then you can be welcomed to somewhere else.

I see your point and obviously it would be silly to accept it at once (I don't disagree with waiting periods in general as an RP thing, only as a necessary sacrifice for the sake of making things fun, just fixed ones except in the case of Seren's where there's a good reason for it) but there is just more value in having your place be accessible I think.

A 5 month referendum really isn't that long. Plus it gives all sides time to weigh their decision, perhaps meet with the person, talk to others and see if maybe they have a perception about said person, based on CT talk.

Let's take Daevos as an example. We decide we will referendum him joining, and so we put it at one month. Most new people who can vote will instantly vote no, because all they know is "CT OMG Daevos is here killing miners!". To them Daevos is the bad guy and that is all they know and therefore they have no reason to vote yes.

Now if you make it a 5 month referendum, and Daevos is at the Mother Tree and someone says "So all I know about you is, blah." Daevos has a chance to tell them who he is, why he did things. He has a chance to let people see him in a new light.

Gregori knows Daevos as the enemy. However, he has dealt with Daevos often enough both on an IC and OOC level that he knows Daevos is more than -just- an enemy. A one month referendum doesn't allow anyone to see that things are not always black and white.

Maybe you can allow the person to wait until they feel ready to take the referendum (getting unenemied, talking with people, showing usefulness) after announcing their intentions to join to the commune.
Then you can make it a one day referendum, as the person would choose when he's ready to be "aproved" by the commune.

Hmmm, fair enough I suppose. Do you give them the option of cancelling it early or something?

EDIT: I guess it wouldn't work really, nevermind.

But that's exactly it Torak. Lusternia IS NOT RL yet many people treat things like it. It's a game. In RL you couldn't do that but in a game? Why not?

They do get to choose when to have their referendum, but 1 month doesnt necessarily give everyone a change to vote. where as 5 does