These are thoughts I've had for a while, but haven't posted until now.

My first character on Lusternia was a Geomancer - mostly because the friend who introduced me to this game played a Magnagoran. I levelled him up to about 60, and got turned off to the fact that at the time (pre-psionics), mage archetype characters were heavily dependent on their demesnes.

I really liked the idea of the guardian class, and made Trakis, a Celestine, just to feel it out. Well, one thing led to another, and I am now playing Trakis exclusively, and have long since ditched my Geomancer.

Around level 60, I started to notice a growing difference in the abilities of the friends I was a Novice with (who are other classes), and myself. I had heard prior to choosing a guardian class that they are weak bashers, so I selected human as my race, thinking I would compensate.

I am now roughly level 70, and my friends have picked up surge, hard hitting weapons, field plate, staffcast, and such, while I'm still stuck with pretty much the same get-up that I've been in since level 50.

I got greatrobes and a shield to help reduce damage, but in terms of bashing, I'm pretty much an Aquamancer with a crappier damage skill.

I know people like Aesyra have done fairly well as Guardians, but right now... I'd really like to know how they did it.

Not to mention the fact that everywhere on the prime plane seems to be constantly bashed out, honours quests always seem to be done, and the stuff in Astral tears me apart (Talking about dying in 2-3 hits with 3400 hp.)

Some specific questions:

1. Is there anything else I can do to improve my chances of survival on astral?
2. Someone in my guild was saying that chainmail gives better protection than greatrobes - is this true?
3. How can I boost my damage output? I usually have Harmony and War blessings active.

Astral is much harder than it used to be. If you're having trouble with it, I recommend trying gorgogs (and hammerheads if you can dive).

Knowledge blessing will boost your damage output more than war will.

I tried Gorgogs the other day, and there's no way I can do it myself without some type of hit and run tactic.

I'll try the Knowledge blessing though - thanks for the tip.

Maybe I just have overly high expectations and shouldn't be able to be doing gorgogs/astral by myself yet? I don't know...

As a Celestine, you have the potential of grabbing a few very very nice damage reducers.

Numen and Halo, I believe, are the big ones. That's just pulled from a fragile memory, however, so ask your guild - I just know that you get a couple things that people with Putrefecation wouldn't mind trading for. Also, you can get a skill called Honor, which gives you a fairly nice regen, especially if you're bashing with another Celestine or a Paladin.

As for protection, I'd stick with Greatrobes. I'm fairly sure their armor is about the same potential levels, while Greatrobes can get proofs added on.

Damage-wise, things are a bit trickier. Maybe try using a Knowledge and War blessing, for a doube-boost to damage at the cost of the extra experience gain. This might actually even out for you, but at least you'll feel a bit stronger, heh. Also, as a human, you'll gain more intelligence as you level up - so just keep treking.

Just a note, all this could be completely wrong, and people who post after me might tear it all apart, but, that would just show why I'm not playing a Guardian.

As a guardian your bashing power will always be a little behind that of the other archetypes, but Aesyra is proof that your dedication, rather than your skills, is what matters when it comes to bashing success.

It's a funny mix of warrior and aquamancer bashing. You don't hit as hard as an aquamancer, but you hit harder than warriors. You aren't as tanky as a warrior, but you're tankier than an aquamancer. It works out only slightly to your detriment, really.

No? Unless you have Nightkiss or Drawdown, a Guardian will bash a lot worse than warriors, by far and large.

Telira's bashing was stupidly slow compared to Celestine Xavius bashing. Warrior bashing without warrior buffs is a joke.

2-3 hits? That seems excessive. I bashed astral just fine with 2.3k health before the changes, and I hear that critters not summoned by linking are the same as before. Are you deffed? Halo makes a big difference. Are your robes enchanted?


Hit and run. It is your friend. You have wings, use 'em.


Sometimes. They have very similar ranges. Last I heard, great robes actually average slightly higher protection (although I've never run tests myself). Most people prefer a set of 49/49 robes over 56/49 chain mail because of the proofings, though.


Harmony won't do anything for your damage output. Whether war or knowledge gives a bigger boost depends on what your current int is. As an imperial merian, war was the better deal for me. As a loboshigaru, knowledge would be a better deal. Where one overtakes the other, I don't know. Also, transcendent celestialism and transcendent planar help. Beyond that, just levels for criticals and artifacts for buffs.

As a 17 int High Elfen, Knowledge still was better than war. Does the extra int really make that much difference? I'd think it would be the opposite; the lower your int, the better War is.

The damage from a high might warrior and a high might guardian is about the same, but the warrior obviously has the advantage with tankiness. Then while the mage is more fragile in terms of health, he can boost his survival power with reflections.

In addition, the races best suited for PK for a mage or warrior are also good races for bashing, while a guardian will have to choose between a pitifully slow basher like taurian or a PK useless race like merian. We do at least have the half and half races, human and lucidian.

How high were your alt's skills? What weapons were you using, what race, etc. And of course warrior bashing without warrior buffs is hard, that's why you have buffs in the first place. I still don't see what your point is, all Guardians have for bashing is cosmicfire, which is pitiful damage against mob overall. In terms of bashing speed, it is Mage-Druid/Wiccan/Warrior/Guardian in general, but it can varies dependent on racial bonuses and weapons used.

Trakis: Guardians really shine when it comes to PvP (due to huge range of instantkills and afflictions available) and passive and healing skills. In general you will be tankier than a Mage, at least that's a plus.

Yeah - I've got transcendent Planar and Celestialism. Maybe I should just worry about being able to kill things faster (war and knowledge blessings) instead of trying to boost my xp gain.

I'm not complaining about guardians in pvp - I love their skillset, which is why I'm going to stick with it, but it's become more and more often that I log on and don't have a whole lot to do because nothing's available except astral.

I've actually had limited success bashing on astral with a Paladin buddy, and I didn't think about using Honor (up until recently I've been very reluctant to use my power for anything other than pvp). Maybe I'll give that a shot and see how it goes.

And yes, I've noticed that things go fine on astral... until I link. Are the linked astral creatures going to tear me up at this point pretty much no matter what?

Trakis.
Good that you didnt taked merian. Merian Celestine is impossoble to bash from around level 75.
As human you will get some constitution and int.
Always use Knowledge blessing. Its +2 int and its huge difference. War blessing is +10% damage so on low int it wont be any good. Life blessing is +10% health.
And use honor, its health/mana/ego regeneration add mercy and perfection to this.
Great idea would be get food with coost to constitution. around 200-300gp each. Works for half hour and add one constitution. It could be expensive but good way to rise health.
Are there astrology blessings that rise constitution? If no you can always use those that gives int or resistance.
Other good way for gaining more health is Tosha, its 20% more health, mana and ego for 25 hours.
Normal mobs from astral shouldnt be problem for you. But those from links could be. You could try them but wichout around 4k health it will be pain for you. But you have wings and NUMEN for use in extreme situations.
As for armour, i'm not sure what would be better chain mail or greatrobes.
I had topic about this difference somewhere on forums. I will try to find it and put link here.
And use shield for sure, it will reduce damage from mobs.

Thats all what i can think right now what could help you.

EDIT:
Here is link to this topic i mentioned. http://lusternia.ire-community.com/index.php?showtopic=6017
Its easier and cheaper to get chainmail armour with best stats then greatrobes in long run. But you will be able to have only 2 protections with chain armour.

If chainmail were 60/60 wouldn't it be worthwhile for a guardian to have BOTH?

Actually I've found armour doesn't make much of a difference.

That is to say I can hunt astral and come down, thinking I seemed to always get the especially tough goats, only to find I was still wearing clothes, and hadn't switched into greatrobes.

That is to say, sure the armour does make a difference, but only marginally. For me the skill based defences are way more important.

Anyone else notice this?

Maybe its just because I'm right on the borderline of being able to take astral critters. Another thing I've noticed, as soon as I get slightly neurotic, the goats get tougher... a conincidence... ?

I usually don't bother when my robes decay, since I can still bash gorgogs without needing to sip (if they're not aggro).

See thats just not fair...
I have to sip, sparkle and even scroll in emergencies.

The speed vs xp bonus is an age old arguemnt... and which is better is based off many different factors. The only way you can really judge it, is by calculating the time it takes to kill things, and how many of those things it takes to gain 1%. Then switch to lower damage/speed and faster xp gain and test again. Sometimes you'll find the higher damage is better, for other people the faster xp gain is better. One of the major factors in that is, does the extra damage boost it enough that it actually takes less hits to kill them. If it doesn't, the faster xp gain will probably be better.

I do however, have to occasionally use Waxing to stay high enough that I feel safe. 1k hits are still dangerous if you're not careful, and your fae don't fire when you need them to.

This is as a level 69 Furrikin Moondancer, with Drawdown.