Now before i get all the naysayers and other negative bastards like Narsrim and co on here telling me how stupid this is....i'd like to open up the discussion forum on demesnes.

I think they make lusternia a lot less fun in terms of group combat. I find it incredibly tedious and boring to have 'demesne wars' where you all squabble for an inch of ground and you just camp it for ages.

(Bellator Societas): Daevos says, "Dislike the concept of demesnes truth be told, doesn't take that much skill to hold a demesne and has a large effect on the outcome of battles."

^^

quoted for truth

(Bellator Societas): Ethelon (from the Aetherways) says, "I would think demesne should be more like vibes, with a small area effect that follows them around."

^^^

a good idea.



I envisage good group combat to be in an environment where one person holding a demesne doesn't affect the mass outcome of a battle. I enviage it to be that both groups have afree 'range of motion' where one side isn't constantly being nailed by afflictions and hinderance.

Perhaps demesnes should have diminsihing effects like contagion? hit less enemies at a time?

Lets hear some ideas and if someone decides to be a negative bastard or otherwise derails this into crap i'm gonna come for you in your sleep.

EDIT: FEAR THE NEW CLOWN AVATAR

I agree, but I don't like the diminishing effects idea. If they get changed they should be no less effective then than they are now.

I was thinking more portability, like a set of vibes or an aura or something like that.

Add diminsihing effects but also add in more mage offensive power.

EDIT: Better yet, have your demesne be targetable at a single person, so you can choose to hit a group with less effects, or hit a single person with the lot.

I think the gods have done a lot to make demesnes less viable against large groups.

First, love potion. In single combat, it's really, really annoying. In group combat, it's beyond the coded possibility to reject everyone who lusts you.

Next, protection scrolls. Yeah, they're not perfect, but that's been envoyed. The demesne holder needs to dissolve all of them and lose his active combat role, or...just dissolve the single target of the group and retain his usefulness. Well, sorta. He's still dodging love.

Third, and my least favorite, take out the demesne holder first. It takes a full minute to set up a timed demensne. For someone ELSE to set up a demesne, the whole thing needs to be broken, just like your mages would need to.

murphy, your clown icon is all swished


Edit: hmm, something useful for the thread...

ok, here are my views on demenses Vs. me in villages.

I useally just sanc, or even just invoking a circle, and they hardly do anything to hinder me past what I can cure almost right away. I geuss I count on others being more of a pain to mages/druids while I hop around. I geuss if I invested in a protection scroll/love potion it would be even better for me.


I've always believed that 1v1 a Mage/Druid should be able to take out a single invader, since they've taken the time to set of a demense.

Mine did that too. Refresh and you'll get the new one.

my point is, if you have 3 warriors and a mage versus say, 4 warriors or even 5 of the bastards, the 3 warriors + mage are going to be that much better.

I hate that you need a mage to counter them effectively. I'm not crying imbalance here necesarily, i'm not saying omgwtf mages r teh pwn and every1elese r teh sux, i'm saying that whatever the problem is, i'm finding it less and less fun. For instance the recent wargames annoyed me so much, aqua demense and i couldn't even keep a group in the same spot due to currents moving me around. It was so frustrating i just gave up all enjoyment of it. not to mention you can't have waterwalk up in aquademense because it just gets sripped over and over.

A really horrid thing about demesne I think is how easy it is to summon. Aqua and Geo have demesne summon, which works pretty well, unless you are large size...and everyone hates large size. Druids have Wiccans with Wisp, which when you walk through the vine walls or try to chop those saplings, you can't get away. Not saying either way is perfect, but it is annoying when this realm is based around group combat and it's so easy to break groups apart and pull them on at a time into death traps.

Demesnes still play too much of a role in combat, take cosmic raids for an example. What happens? One force sets a demense and they take over the plane, then summon people to a big group and kill the person. Influencing still follows the same theme, Wargames, generally anything with more then one person boils down to a demesne. If someone raids a sea, you demense and wait for them to come back then summon/jump them in it. Now that said I can't come up with a clear way to combat this, Ethelon's idea is nice but what happens when two mages come with one? Do both of them constantly have their effects? Also, to continue onwards summon - summons are still single handedly the biggest combat breaker and way over done. As you can see from above 99% of raids and defense relys on summoning the other group or members from it - and lets face it, it is still easy. Summons should be eliminated and in its place, the mage should be able to warp to the other person with their entourage.

argh, the clown icon is worse then ever *cringes in fear*

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of a demesne is for the Mage to screw large groups of people over, and perhaps kill them? And since a mage does not have that many offensive abilities, a demesne is crucial to balance him against the say, fighters.

Was my post deleted..?
SOrry....wrong thread... *thwap me*

I agree with all (ok, most) of what is said.

But we've beat this topic up how many times now? It's been stated pretty clearly that demesnes aren't going to change.

While demesne do suck and they terribly irritate me to no end, I don't think it is really that much different than Aetolia.

Ever try to fight ANYONE in ANY forest where he had buddies with a grove... or multiple buddies with multiple groves? You were just hosed. In fact, this created a - omfg, don't enter the forests under hostile terms scenario.

Furthermore, I remember fighting a city war in Aetolia against druid (groves), mages (vibes), and devotion users (rites). It honestly was the same deal.

So... is it "right"? Probably not... is it all that different? Not really, depends on who you fought elsewhere. And umm, let's not even mention Imperian with all that engineering crap for cities, etc.

I agree with Xavius. The only real problem is the instant summons.

I know my envoy report and Geb's envoy report has some nerfs to demesne summon/wisp. It should help too.

I think the difference is that demesnes can be done anywhere here, groves were secluded to one room, rites were as were vibes.

While I agree, I disagree. Groves were not secluded to one room because you could move the damn grove. Furthermore, the grove itself was a nightmare. Grove golem, grove bees, a totem (which was instant death if summon because they could just use all pain runes and instantly incinerate), etc. You could also have multiple groves in a single forest and thus have 5-10 (which wasn't uncommon in Aetolia) people blasting you with grove lightning, trying for grove summon, displacing you into a totem and a group of 50, etc. Given that 1/3 of Aetolia/Achaea is a forest, druids has massive power control in their homeland versus Lusternia where there are 3 forests total (faethorn, glomdoring, serenwilde) + 10 rooms on Vescuia... so it can't be compared ounce for ounce.

Vibes could be moved and they could be placed in a few rooms with ring or whatever. It wasn't that difficult to do. And rites may have been cast in a single room BUT you could put several rooms of them up continually.

In all the fighting I've done in Aetolia... I've never once been forced into entering a forest or dieing to a druid, unless it was Arena. Here we don't have that option, the fact that the demesne can be placed anywhere makes it uncomparable to groves.

I hate demesnes. If they weren't so important for every single damn thing I'd switch in a heartbeat.

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Someone revoke Murphy's avatar privileges. Let not that clown's gruesome visage be forced upon us all a second longer.

On topic though, of course I agree that demesnes have had and continue to have too large an effect on conflict within Lusternia. They have made large scale engagements unenjoyable no matter which side a person is on. Either because the battles are too easy or too difficult.

I understand though, that some in the adminstration have an attachment to them. But they need to be further weakened, specifically in the area of summoning.