I have a lot of respect for most of the players of Lusternia, and contrary to what is often implied on the forums I think it has developed into a community of many wonderful, intelligent and mature people. And for some reason or another, it often seems that quite a number of us are of diverse orientations. So, I'm going to do something quite uncharacteristic for me and ask for advice.

You see, at 22 (*gasp* I know, so old ) I still haven't quite integrated all parts of my personality. I have accepted the way I am for some time, but I have a lot of trouble acknowledging it... until now I've always tried to ignore that side of things. I've always figured I'd be able to just let it rest, its not really an important part of 'me' - and after all nuns and priests seem to do just fine, hehe. Lusternia is probably the first time I have actually explored what it would be like to embrace that side of things, though obviously to a very shallow extent.

But I think my perfect plan is starting to backfire, and my unsociable habits are becoming extreme. I am withdrawing from people around me, and I think its mostly because I have too much fear of being identified as part of the gay community, and bear an irrational shame because of it. I think the solution is to fully 'come out' as they say (what a horrible term), but I'm not sure if its a good idea.

Having already gone the counselling route (and boy do I love having someone else to argue with, heh) I've already told my wonderful parents as directed, which was both great and awful at the same time. They were so accepting and supportive, which was almost worse than what I was expecting. However, I have three very blokey brothers who do not know. Even though they are all into the same sports, cars and all that jazz while I'm not... we are pretty close, and now that they all have girlfriends I feel like I should be honest with them. Rather than making light-hearted jests about why I don't have my own sheila, and going along with their innocent yet homophobic banter. I've been putting it off for years, because I know how hard speaking to them about it is going to be as compared to my much more liberal parents.

I just, I don't know if it would be better to wait until their probable initial rejection would not be so influential on my own self-esteem, or if this is something that needs to be done before that can improve. Maybe I'm being foolish, and certainly incoherent... but do any of you wiser people have any advice?

Is it better to do it so that you can start accepting and integrating things, or better to wait until acceptance and integration happens completely before (and ugh, I'm going to say it again!) coming out?

(And if noone feels like responding, that's perfectly ok.. )

I am not very wise, and do not have any advice nor experience in coming out. However, I would like to wish you well in this process and I do hope that it all ends up for the better. I know this must be rough and you are being very brave. If you are close to your friends, they may already have some sort of inkling about your orientation.

This is probably bad advice... What helped me get through a different sort of rejection (being the school's universally reviled punching-bag nerd) is to stop caring what other people think of me and only value my own opinion of myself. Not everyone can do that nor is that healthy for everyone's emotional well-being; it takes some very tough proverbial skin. But now I don't care if society nor family reject the things I do so long as I can look back at my life choices and honestly tell myself that were my life to infinitely repeat itself throughout the infinite future then I would make the same set of choices with the knowledge I had at each point in time.

Ultimately, you have to consider what you want and need from the situation, and how you're going to act to hopefully achieve that. No one here can make the choice for you, really, and expect for it to work out how you wanted.

My take on life is rather similar to Roark's above, however I understand that you may feel like that doesn't help you much because you do care what your brothers think.

Having said that, the saying "you can choose your friends but not your family" works both ways, no matter how your brothers feel at first, they WILL come around, because you're their brother.

As for whether it would be better now or later, I would say that it's going to be a tough thing no matter when you do it, and it's better to get it over with so you can all accept the new situation and move on. You can't predict the future, therefore any procrastination can have unforeseen consequences, and you should get things done while you know you can do so well.

So, my advice would be, find a time when you can do it, and do it. Don't wait for extraneous reasons.

Personally, I wouldn't mention such things untill it was relevant.

For example, lets say you were a muslim, but you really wanted to marry someone who was a heretic because you like the way heretics worship. No need to tell people that untill you found a heretic to go worship with. Once your thinking about actually going to go worship with the heretic, then maybe that would be a good time to discuss it with your family. Before your committed to worshiping with them, but not before there is a real world situation that you need to talk about.

It's hard to give advice as every situation is different but for me personally, I made sure I was ready for whatever happened. I got to the point at age 16 where I was ready to leave my family and friends behind if they could not accept who I was - they are hardly worth my love if they cannot accept me, are they?

I was luckily blessed with very accepting people in my life and have had little to no problems with them. Even my very blokey half brother and even more blokey father accept it. They can still make gay jokes, just as I do, and no one cares.

Some people can and will surprise you with how accepting they can be, others may not, for whatever reason, be able to get past the fact that you are gay. Either way, it's unhealthy to push a part of yourself away or attempt to ignore the fairly primal needs of companionship.

I'll finish by sharing a question I ask myself whenever I start to worry what others might think: who has to live your life, you or them?

I should probably listen to most of the stuff said here too. And, I certainly didn't know you were gay, Avaer. Still, I haven't come out to any more than two friends yet, believe it or not. The first was fine, though took about a month to believe me. The second was somewhat the same, but I--'m changing the topic slightly.

My personal advice would be to get used to it yourself first, until you're 100% confident and accepting of it. Took me two years to accept it, and I think if I'd told anyone during that time it would have been an incredible amount harder.

This reminds me a lot of my best friend who’s gay. We’ve known each other since kindergarten and he is not a person you could really tell was gay at first glance. He’s very nervous and unsure about how others would accept him so he basically lives a double life to cover up who he really is. When we go out he pretends to flirt with girls and act like “one of the guys” – it’s pretty ridiculous because everyone knows he’s gay but we’re still waiting for him to feel comfortable enough with his environment to tell us.

So my suggestion to you would be to just get it over with. It may be difficult but to your astonishment your brothers, friends, etc. will most likely be very supporting if they really care about you which I'm sure they do.

It's a difficult thing to do, and no one here is qualified to tell you how to proceed, but saying that:

Like Lisaera said, friends can be chosen, family can't. I know of someone who's been disowned by his family since he came out. Simultaneously, his friends became the best family he could ever have had.

Whatever you do, Avaer, have faith in yourself.

Wow, thankyou everyone for replying so honestly... that's given me quite a bit to think about.

It's incredibly good advice not to let others define how you think about yourself, I've said the same things to my friends often when they are down, I'm just far better at rhetoric than actually putting it into practice. You're right though, family is family, and it has to be done at some point whatever their reaction is.

Daganev, that was how I was originally thinking... you don't just walk up and tell your family about your fantasies or sexual desires in any other form, why is this case different? The problem is that to preserve the illusion that it is not an issue, there are so many little lies and concealments that have to follow. While that was fine in the short-term, it really starts to wear after a while.

Quidgy, Athana... thankyou for sharing your stories. I can't imagine the courage it takes to overcome all this at the tender age of 16, let alone the insight and maturity it obviously demonstrates. And I don't really pretend as much as I avoid any possible situation where it would become necessary, heh.

Soll, likewise... and you're not changing the topic.

And, there just isn't a smiley good enough... but this will do:

Yeah, but I was taking the focus away from you. But, yes.. Dealing with it at 15 is hard/interesting. Still, I expect all(those that matter) of your friends will be able to accept it. If they are your friends, it shouldn't really make a difference atall. Might take a while to get used to it, but then it should be back to normal.. I imagine.

Coming out seems a weird phrase. *ponder*

Hmmm time for the murph's thoughts on the matter. (don't fear it, embrace it)

If you're gay, then you like the same sex, and thats all there should be to it. Personally i think its all about who you are and not your orientation. I mean personally i'm straight but if one day I decided I was gay, It wouldn't change who I am. I wouldn't speak different nor would i be any less of a person.

If you don't feel comfortable telling them outright (I can assume the whole, sit down i want to tell you guys something would be most uncomfortable) just go out and lead your life as you want to, and if they ask, tell them.

If you don't let it change who you are, and are honest and confident about it (if you're not confident, fake confidence till you are confident that works for me) then you should have no worries.
Your family should accept you and love you for YOU, end of story.

To sum up, you aren't your sexual orientation, you aren't the colour of your skin, you aren't what you did last week, last year. You are who you decide to be TODAY.

Then why put up an illusion? If you want to get the latest pink tutu, just get it. You don't have to be gay to like pink tutus.


I think there is a HUGE difference between being an efeminate male, and telling people your gay, and I think it just makes things harder to worry about one because of the other.

Hmm... What to say, what to say... Most everything I think has been said a couple times already from the looks of it...

For one thing, Murphy, you rock.

For another thing, I've lived through pretty much the same thing Roark discribed with being the universal punching bag for my whole middleschool and highschool years... Eventually it just got to the point I didn't really care what most people said or thought about me, and I pretty much turned into the type who never gets terribly close to people. That said... Its hard to be completely indifferent with family or close friends. I know the couple times I've been hurt the worst wasn't to people I knew as enemies, but those I thought were friends and people I could trust. Being betrayed hurts damn bad when you don't even see it comming like that...

As for what I think you should do. I'm gunna go with Murphy, just be yourself and if they ask, tell them. If they're shocked at first, they'll either get over it or they won't. If they don't, its their own loss for not being able to see your the same person they've always known. But I think they'll get over it as long as you stay yourself.

.. and adding to other comments: if you delay it you may find a 'better' time to tell them, but you may also make things worse. Its hard to judge. People are pretty consistent: if they'll have trouble accepting your lifestyle choices now then they'll probably have trouble a couple years down the track. I believe its best to bite the bullet - but gently. Don't go all out shocking gay on them, just tell them now rather than later. Gauge their reaction, accept that this is just part of life and move on with it. You'll feel a lot better after having done something about it - whether the immediate result was positive or negative, it'll be a big weight off your mind.

I do have a concern about that advice. Delaying until something is "relevant" could make it more of a strain to accept multiple things at once. Smaller steps are easier on all parties. If someone is reluctant to accept something, it'd be better to make them aware of it and give them time to realize it doesn't change anything.

Yeah, good point. I think "coming out" and informing them that you're moving in with a boyfriend at the same time might be a little shocking for anyone who doesn't expect it.

"Ta ta brothers, I'm a poof and this is my boi Rupert. We're moving into a smashing little two-bedder in Surry Hills. Toodles!"

...works for me.

If you have already told your parents, maybe your parents have already told them and they're wondering why you don't trust them enough to tell them. Most probably if you all live together they know something is happening just from the way you have been behaving

From my experience family is always there and will love and support you. If your parents are so loving and accepting I am sure your brothers have learned to be like that as well, and the sooner you get over with this and can go solving other things that bother you the better you'll be. And you'll be free of them trying to pair you with a very nice friend of their sheilas.

What matters here is your happiness and feeling good about yourself. If your family and friends love you (and I am sure they do) then they'll be happy about your choices. Little lies and trying to keep a situation hidden doesn't help because it makes you unhappy. Probably your self-steem will be much better if you can accept yourself fully in your environment.