I'm not sure if this is a pervasive issue in Lusternia, but I got cheated out of around 600 credits in Achaea and loaned out a smaller quantity earlier today on Lusternia. In the Achaea case, I was told that since I had nothing but a "verbal agreement" to be repaid, they could punish the other person but not give me back my credits. I trust the person who I gave the credits to today, but it (and several other events) got me thinking.

Could bookbinders create a written Contract, listing the terms and bounds of the contract, any punishment, the people involved, etc. Like this:



Then, four people would sign this contract, and as they did, each would recieve a non-decaying copy of the contract with all signatures listed. After being signed by once person, the contract could not be changed and the original would stay with the bookbinder, who could then give it to another person of his choice after all signers had signed, and the document was finalized.

As was hinted at, the written agreement would help in arguments, and to sort out player issues for the admins. It could ensure safeholding and return of property during absence, "wills", buisness deals, etc.

Comments?

Name an idea, that idea has more chance that this. I don't say this trying to be rude, but you must be crazy thinking any administration would "step in" to handle contract disputes over artifacts. That's be a flipping nightmare.

Plus, what would constitute forced recompensation? This is just bad bad bad.

Contracts... sounds good.

Help Artifacts

This would be really nice since I'm one a lot of people come to to borrow credits, but like Narsrim said I doubt the admin want this on their plates.

It doesn't have to be administrative intervention actually. It could serve as a proof for various IC situations, or even if admins couldn't resolve the issue, at least it could be made public knowledge (proved).

Yah, I was actually intending to make the admin's job easier if they get this sort of crap issues all the time. Now instead of Persons 1 and 2 yelling at each other, being jerks, and going right to the admin with an issue in which they both lie their butts off, it would be written down and the punishment would already be listed. No extra crap.

As for the artifact example, I said recompensate.
IE: Person 1 has to pay 500 credits directly to Person 3 of his own volition for being a jerk. If he doesn't, you go to the admin and say "Hey, he violated this written contract and won't fulfill his obligations within. Beat him for me."

Indeed, a written contract, even if in this case still wouldn't equate to any recompensation. You can do something similar with messages to each other without utilizing bookbinding or anything else.

Yah, I've used messages before, but that tends to rule out the IC solution and they can get deleted by accident...

Though unlikely there could be someone at the seal of justice who you could submit the original contract to (file keeper or what ever) each contract might be assigned a number and until everyone who has signed the contract confirms that it has been fulfilled it remains on the books.

Should someone refuse to fulfill their part the contract can be complained about at the seal and with out the divine specifically getting involved (ic: would the divine really care about mortals getting upset over credits/money etc)

So within X ammount of time they must present their "case" generally they'd better have a damn good arguement as to why they aren't doing their part. After the matter is settled either the punishment is handed out or they are given a specific time within which they must satisfy the requirements before the punishment comes into effect.
All punishments could be attributed to some power, Divine Magistrate or something. allowing for say Roark the Admin (not the god) to hand out punishments, while also allowing maybe high ephemerals or something to also sort out cases.

maybe something like that?

I don't think it is necessary nor would it really require Bookbinding. Preserved letters could do this nicely (As the admin wouldn't jump in on something like this that isn't system coded.)

It only covers the underlying problem of the person you lending the credits to and their word. If you have 600 credits to spare and you happen to loan them out without either being able to instantly produce said amount again or not care about the loss in the event that something ill happened then I personally think you shouldn't loan them out.

You can forge a signature on a letter. I was thinking the contract would have the signature and exact date signed.

EDIT: And that was only one of many reasons for me leaving Achaea. And, it's not only credits I'm worried about.

It would be usefull for guild clans also.

You learned a valuable lesson in Achaea though, and it counts for Lusternia too.

Don't lend out credits unless you willing to never see them again. As far as the administration is concerned it's accually a donation when you transfer at 0 gold a piece.

I lend out some credits after my first purchase, people to whom I though would certainly return them, but unfortunatly they didn't, now it where only 20 credits so I'll survive, but the lesson counts none the less.

And then there is ofcourse the debate if you get this stuff promised IC, then they must be able to steal it, however low that may be. If it's ooc, then it's accually a crime OOC.

I agree that with the credit issue, your out of luck...

However, contracts could be cool ingame. Perhaps be able to SIGN ?

You read what is written on an elegant white letter:
This is a letter!
You are bound to do what I say!!!
Lalalala!
The end!
This letter is signed by Trade Bob
1337h, 1337m, 1337e, 1337p, 0en, 0w -

I dislike it. If we want to make agreements between eachother then it is our responsibility to handle those agreements. The Administration never asked to be become judge and jury over our petty squabbles.

I don't get why this needs coding. The whole process just SCREAMS it's a Nation thing.

Just have a minister + aides responsible for 'contracts'. If you give it to the Librarian then you can even get Bookbinding involved (thus, everyone gets a copy, but the Librarian keeps the sealed original). If the contract isn't filled then the nation can evoke punishments on the offender, and even establish 'collection' actions upon the individual.

As for peoples of different nations, I'll just say that it's ICly similar to working with peoples of different countries: If you can't trust that the other's country will respect your contract then NEVER EVER make a contract with that person.

No major coding required. IF it becomes popular then the gods can probably give a few powers to make it easy for the minister to do their job (CONTRACTS: Lets you see contracts still in affect..).


Blah, I do that now actually: One of the Ur'Guard's Tasks involves a 2 year contract between the GA and a member on regular trade. Other contracts even more binding are in the works as well.



Magnagora: Always ahead on innovation

Would it be possible to make the contract... have some sort of automated IG consequence. You sign over your 100 credits to someone, with a time stipulation and then you both SIGN CONTRACT. The signing of the contract creates an Aetheric link between the two of you. As and when your debtor does not give the credits back within the stipulated time... you gain a certain number of controls over him/her until they do.

Something like the GUILD SCORE, GUILD SKILLS, GUILD INVENTORY THING.

Except perhaps.. BOND SCORE, etc.

Through the bond between the two of you, you also gain various nasty powers. Such as the ability to always know where your debtor is, to be able to watch him, to be able to see every secret clan, to be able to hear everything he says or tells, or puts across any channel. Should you want to. Perhaps also an ability to immediately drain all mana at whim from him to yourself. And something similar with power. In other words, your debtor becomes in an entirely IC, unadministrated way, forced to either give your credits back, or simply not play anymore. It could become even more fun than that.. an ability to set a title? Debtor, Bondslave of Aiakon... As and when credits are returned, the contract is lifted.. or as and when the creditor decides to write off the debt. Could be fun.