Ya I am bringing this one into the ring, the gloves are coming off baby!! I want you, as the playerbase's opinion as to weither or not things like CAMPAIGN SANCTUARY need a change.
-I would ask you post your opinion
-Give reasons as to WHY you feel this way <---very important
For me, Influencing is just no fun anymore...in Celest we get told 9 times out of 10 we have standing orders to stand down, and not even try for it...and going in alone to influence is not seen as bravery or faith, but as some trying to lose a few levels...
When we DO influence it becomes... move+sanc....move+sanc..... move+sanc....;

I just think the way things are now isn't alot of fun, not to mention no one is noticed or favoured or even given encouragement for influencing, and there is no IC drive to teach the younger generations about it, Celest is just slowly getting drug behind the influencing wagon. I miss the old days where influencing scared the crap out of me, cause at any moment, Daevos and Jadryga would jump out, and kill me for preacing at them. <3

SO! What do you all think?
Love-mimi:wub:

EDIT: Watch your language. ~Shiri~

Reading your post, it sounds more like you don't like influencing, so sanctuary needs to go, rather than sanctuary itself is flawed.

I remember the arguments and pleading for something to be done to allow nonfighters to have an chance at village influencing. Not village battles, village influencing. Without the possibility for sanctuary, open villages are just another place for fighters to fight with conglutination in case of death and for nonfighters to wish they could have an effect without the unavoidable risk of death. For me as a nonfighter, influencing is fun because I shouldn't die and I don't want to die if I can avoid it. CR2s can sanctuary, and that gives them a chance to help, even if it's just holding sanc at a denizen and watching them (bonus if they can analyze!).

So no, I don't think sanctuary needs to change or vanish.

As to some of the rest of what you said:
That sounds like an internal problem. Serenwilde could do a bit more on teaching, I think, and we're working on such things, but we also usually have a few people who'll take scents in a village to compile a list for communefavours afterwards of those who tried to help. Once quite a bit ago in a friendly Seren vs. Celest session, I inquired of someone (for some reason I'm thinking Shamarah, though I may be mistaken) if they wanted a list of Celestians who'd helped from the scents I'd taken for our own favours, and I did send over that list in a message.

I get that you don't like being in sanctuary... but I don't understand why.

Why is sanctuary a problem?

I've gotten 3 commune favours (well i think i'm owed one) from helping out, and only one for helping defend faethorn (admittedly it's not so often so i understand)

Even I, as a much weaker player, was given a commune favour from Serenwilde for just trying to help when Southgard revolted. Not that I was able to help much (death kept getting in the way), but I was rewarded for the effort and the willingness to risk my life for the commune. This is definitely something New Celest should implement, as it gives motivation for even the younger players to get involved.

I personally thought watching the whole thing unfold was rather exciting, but I didn't know much about what was going on at the time.

Whenever Ive been around Ive seen anyone who participated in a village influencing session get favoured and each village that comes up for influencing is more practice, the better you get the better your commune/city gets. Sanctuary was put there for a reason, perhaps being able to stop a demesne being dissolved by campaigning sanctuary in a room connected to the ends of the demesne. A possible solution could be if a room remains in sanctuary for x amount of time the room automatically becomes unflood/forest/tainted(meld) as in the sanctuaried room the plants, taint or light cant grow as it is always a conflict between good and evil and hence if you leave it sanctuaried to long the meld withers away and dies as it can't sustain itself nor grow.

Glomdoring awaits you.

eh? this is a person saying they like the way serenwilde rewards there members who help out in influencing. shoo, shoo! Stop trying to recruit them all.

I find sanctuary really frustrating in that all it takes is a number of people sitting in key locations and the village effectively becomes peaced. Why have a village where combat is allowed... if it isn't allowed at the cost of 1 power per person who just sits around, letting people moonbeam/teleport from sanctuary to sanctuary?

My personal opinion is that sanctuary / crusade need to drop a minute after your ego is shattered (you can no longer maintain it), and you can't place a new one of either until your ego is restored. This gives you time to run away via teleport / moonbeam / whatever, but you can't just sit in the same room for hours on end. You actually have to do something a little more active.

Why would that change matter anyway, demense effects don't do anything in a sanc'ed room, in fact I believe the only thing someone can try to do in a sanc'ed room is certain illusions to try to get you to leave the sanc'ed room.(attempting to manipulate your triggers) Losing taintforest/water/taint/forest in a sanced room wouldn't mean anything other then a slight mana/health regen for certain races(which doesn't mean anything because your not getting attacked in said sanc'ed room anyway. soo, I don't see the point of that.

That's because you're not quite sure how demesnes work. If a sanctuary is placed over the break point of a demesne, nobody else can come along and break that demesne... EVER. You can't break somewhere in the middle, you have to break where the break points are. A good demesne in a village revolt will have one or two people dedicated to a sanctuary at the easy-to-get-to break points, preventing the opponent from expanding into your demesne at all.

The Taint is not evil. The light may believe itself to be good because it adheres to certain ethical codes, and because it believes that Taint is evil and that it is taint's antithesis. But the Taint is not Evil. Good and evil are determined by personal action, not by the accident of your birth.

Hey now. We're debating whether or not to change sanctuary, not the philosophy of Taint v. Light. (Mainly because that is a topic with potential to consume the soul of this thread for all eternity... )

Jeesh, Celest doesn't favor their influencers?! Wow..just wow

In every other city, Influencing is the BEST way to become Cityfavored. Blah, just running around dying in the darn village is usually enough to get put on the favor list (a recommended thing: The novice running around trying to do SOMETHING becomes the experienced Influencer picking up that last villager to win). The fact that the city isn't promoting influencing is an issue of it's leadership, NOT the code.

In short, get new leaders!


As for sanctuary itself, I'll step in to argue for Ego break to kill the sanctuary. Firstly, A crusaded room can be dealt with by killing the Crusader or pushing them out of the room. Sanctuary has no counter. If you made Sanctuary killable by debate, you not only offer a balance, but you do so by a non-aggresive means. You can still defend the Sanc by simply out debating or having others around to pick up the Sanc if you're getting hit.

In the end, it'll mostly be usable in breaking demesne locks (and really, Sancing a room to protect an aggressive demesne IS blah) and dealing with that person who's camping a villager IF they can't fight off a debate. It also means people who can debate well get more power (since if you can't ego kill them the Sanc stays.. period). In actual influence fights to get the villager, everyone will be too focused on actually GETTING the villager to bother with Sanc (and both side would probably prefer it up anyway, unless they are THAT desperate).

So it gives PKers a few more options, solves the annoying habit of sancing Break points, makes Debater more useable, and overall gives more variation to an event that doesn't happen quite so oftain (really, a good many of the villages out there end up peaced: especially if you exclude Angkrag and Acknor which no one really fights for anyway).

are you people talking about? We favor everyone who helps influence

You likewise don't seem to have a clue about demesnes either. While yes, it is possible to sanctuary on a break spot, name one location where 2 spots anchor a demesne. Even in Stewartsville, it takes around 7-8 in rather weird locations with no major denizens to anchor.

It depends on the size and location of the demesne, obviously, but it is not hard at all to anchor the points that are easiest to reach, leaving the break point being in the fields or in the mansion. Excepting someone using grace to quickly move through the demesne to one of those break points, the most common attempts are at the main choke points.

For example, in Paavik, you have the path leading into the mansion. One sanctuary there and you can't expand the northern demesne from the shops in- you have to send someone else in who has no demesne to try and break inside. And inside the mansion there are only three "real" break points... there are side rooms that you can break, but you can't break into the main demesne except from the front, the rooms next to the flimsy antechamber upstairs, and the rooms next to the chill wine cellar. If you sanctuary those three, you own the ghosts.

Obviously, the bigger the demesne, the more break points there are. I was keeping the answer simple-- the point remains, having an invulnerable sanctuary (especially stopping any kind of demesne expansion) is too much.

In Stewartsville, you can seal a demesne covering the entrance, the whole main loop, and a path up to Cecelia with just three sanctuaries.

Yeah, I'm with Shamarah on this one. No clue what the OP is talking about. There's no standing orders to not try for a village, anyone who helps gets favoured - at a quick glance I count 40 people marked for favours for influencing alone. I won't even mention the other IC matters and am certainly not saying Celest is totally on the ball (obviously) but simply put:

Simimi, I don't know if you just don't play very much or don't read news posts or what but if you truly believe the things in your posting you need to talk to some people IC and get some information. If you're operating under these beliefs its no wonder you're frustrated and has very little to do with the code.

Err...
ok!
"Are we going for it?"
PersonHigherRankThanI, "Nope"
:'(
Meh...yea this thread can be deleted, I had not thought it through all the way, Catarin is right
love-mimi