Having read previous complaints about people raiding on prime then stepping 1 room out into *neutral* avenger protected rooms, a thought ( )occured to me.

Introduce an agressor flag with a duration linked to the amount of damage done by each raider (number of loyals/guards killed, or total strength of creatures/defending players killed)

For the duration that the agressor flag is active - avenger protection is suspended in neutral territory.

The intent is that for an appropriate duration after the raid - the raider can still be hunted on prime by members of the defending organisation unless the raider returns to their own city/commune's territory without getting status but without the raider suffering the enemy territory extra XP loss if slain outside of the raided territory.

Not sure if/how villages should count for this.

Is this idea workable?

I had thought that if you attack any mobile loyal to another organization, you were automatically declared against all members of that organization anyway.

Is that not the case?

Most raiders spore/teleport/ghost away right after the raid anyway, and should this be implemented I am 99% sure that they'll just sit in their city until the flag goes away.
The change won't hurt, but I doubt it will help much either.

They are but when it comes to Avechna, there's a nasty catch.

For example, I go into your territory and kill a few villagers. You rush in and hit me with a mortal wound. I spore out back to my home, but die soon after.

According to Avechna, you just killed me while I was at my Nexus. You just got status. If you already had status on me (say if I did this already last time) I can have you vengeanced.


Blah, I don't even have to spore out, just get ONE room out of enemy territory and die there.


The auto-declare adds an even nastier effect. I can rush in, kill a guard, get attacked by you, and run. If I get one step out of enemy territory and you don't notice avechna won't stop you from getting Status/Vengeance for killing me, since you're auto-declared.



That is the issue in question.

As for the flag: perhaps just make it simple: If you're attacked by a player in enemy territory you get flagged for 5 minutes against the nation that owns the territory. Die by that nation within that time and no status will come. After 5 minutes, the flag goes away. Any death (including vitae/lich/trans, so on) strips it as well.

Just like that. If I walk into the Stewardsville(Serenwilde village currently), kill a villager, and run away I'm fine, but if someone whacks me I have to huff it for a while or else anyone from Serenwilde can kill me at will. Of course Celest can't just join in and have their fun since the flag is for Serenwilde.

Hmm. So, if Bob declares on Jane, and Jane kills Bob... Bob gets suspect on Jane?

In the case when an aggressor leaves, it shouldn't matter where they die. You didn't declare them, you shouldn't get suspect.

If it doesn't work that way, it sounds like a bug.

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Edit: Also, raiding is a separate issue to attacking someone who is simply standing in enemy territory.

In the former case, the raider should have autodeclared everyone in the organization.

In the latter, they have not. I believe there is currently an issue with this second case where the lack of declaration causes problems when death occurs outside the territory.

The problem is the dual declare/defend.

When you kill a loyal (and only when you kill a loyal--more on this later), you're considered to be DEFENDing against the attacker. When you attack someone in enemy territory, you auto-DECLARE them.

So, scenario one: raider enters, kills a loyal, defender engages, escapes and dies to bleeding in neutral territory.

Defend, declare, death without protection. Raider gains suspect, possibly vengance, even with PK careful.

Scenario two: raider enters, kills a loyal, defender engages, pursues and kills one room outside enemy territory.

Defend, declare, death without protection. Raider gains suspect, possible vengance, even with PK careful.

Scenario three: raider enters, kills a loyal, defender engages and kills inside enemy territory.

Defend, declare, death with territory-protection. No suspect.

Scenario four: raider enters, kills a loyal, dies to a random snake trap out on the road.

Defend, location irrelevant. No suspect.

Didn't quite follow that. Who is the raider defending by killing a loyal?

I'm fairly sure as I said earlier that attacking a loyal is an auto-declaration against every online member. Just as if the raider typed DECLARE ELRYN/DECLARE NEJII/DECLARE ZENJI/etc.

The raider isn't defending. The raider is considered to have declared this amorphous entity called the Collective of Serenwilde, and everyone in Serenwilde is automatically assumed to DEFEND this political entity.

Ah, I see what you mean.

It sounds to me more like a bug than design.

It sounds like the problem is auto-declaring in enemy territory... is that mentioned somewhere in the help files?

Edit: Ah, help enemy territory.

Hmm. The code shouldn't be remembering the last attacker if the target is in enemy territory. It isn't supposed to be an auto-declare, by the sound of it, its supposed to be totally ignored by Avechna.

Just realized that there's a potential fifth scenario.

Raider kills a loyal in Shanthmark (distorted, only one exit). Defenders set up shop one room outside of Shanthmark and waits for the raider to finish. Defenders obliterate raider just outside of enemy territory (no auto-declare).

Defend, death (location irrelevant). No suspect.

So, to avoid suspect, you have to 1) kill them inside the territory, 2) have a random snake pit out on the street, or 3) not attack them at all until they leave the territory.

THAT'S what's happening?!

Good god, that IS a bug.

It's not a bug as much as it is shortsighted design. It's exactly the same as how it works if you type them out explicitly. It's also exactly how it's documented.

Just can't figure out for the life of me why they opted to do it this way instead of making a third declare/defend function relating to enemy territory.