Well, now that the debating bug is fixed, is chanting still worth looking at? Does it affect the city/commune balance?

If you people think it's a problem now, just wait until DIVERTing costs 50% ego - then it'll be even MORE overpowered. Much more.

edit: oops

Shiri won vs Zalana with me chanting, since Laetitia has its own balance. Not relevant to any non-mugwumps, apparently, though, so I'd say it's fine.

wasn't that just going to be for divert

Nejii is a Furrikin with +1 eq, and Zalana is a brood viscanti with a sip penalty, right? Not exactly the best example.

Obviously those without chanters are going to win sometimes. That's not what I meant by a problem. Rather, chanters have a far greater advantage in debating than those who cannot.

I don't think eq has anything to do with it.

And yes, Anisu, Shorlen meant divert, not debate.

Sips, sparkleberries and a chanter, and she still managed to lose.

speed of debating is only depending on Charisma, Nejii and Shorlen often have 20 charisma when they go village influence (or so Shorlen tells me, don't shoot me if it's wrong). Also forestals had an advantage of being in a forest area.

not to mention both Nejii and Shorlen are among the best influencers in the game.

There is no replacement for some measure of skill, but the debating fix has actually made laetitia more unbalanced because of the extra time it takes to start doing enough ego damage to overcome sip, sparkle, and laetitia to stop diverters.

I use it.. I love it, and I encourage the city to grab L1 novices to get them chanting if I could think hard enough during a revolt.

Given that, YES it darn well is unbalancing because you can't stop it. Influence can be stopped by Divert and Debate. Divert can be stopped by casual Debate. Debate you can run from, or semi-ignore (can't kill with pure defense anymore, but you can still do what you need to do if you defend well). ALL of them you can stop with a good old Shattering.

Laetitia? You can't stop it, and the cities are getting better at using it ( well, Magnagora is, Celest still needs work ). Shatter a person and you've just created another chanter. That's just Blah.

The solution: Make Laetitia require an unshattered ego. Then if you see the old Debate/Chant combo you can just counter it by two people debating. Also it'll mean that shattering someone reduces them into a scouting role ONLY, which is good enough. As for the fact that Chanting gives the superyoung something to do, it'll still be viable, but now they can't just go into a 'war zone' mindlessly: they have to learn to run, learn to debate, or pick up Analyze and become a scout.

I don't use a chanter unless one happens to start following me a round in which I promptly lose somewhere at one point or another but there are a lot of things communes have in advantage to the cities everything can't always be balanced in every single aspect.

1. Nejii does not have 20 charisma. Nejii has 14 charisma. Nejii might have had a lion sphere at the time though, putting him up to 15.

2. Nejii did not have any advantage regen-wise from the forest. He could've run away easier, but...that's not in question here.

3. Are they?

He could easily get 18 charisma as a furrikin for a bit of karma and some gold, 20 with a lion and good stars.

Definately. I didn't have a beauty enchant nor a chanter (except once or twice when someone felt like it) and still went at least 20-1 wins to losses in Paavik earlier.

I beat Zalana with 11 charisma as a Mugwump so... bad example.

With offensive debating being much stronger, chanting isn't THAT large of an issue at the moment really in my eyes - it's when diverting takes 50% of your ego that it will matter. So, you can divert and be back at full ego next round, and you have the full ego to divert again.

Erm, offensive debating is no stronger.

I like Laetitia, don't nerf it!!! It can't be -that- unbalancing as everyone I was chanting for in Estelbar got metally assaulted, and then people kepy shattering me knowing I don't know how to debate hardly, so...I kept chanting, gives the newbies something to do.
Why the hate for Laetitia, it does not cure THAT much, but then again i have 14 int...hrm.
love-mimi

Laetitia does cure that much when you add in bromide and beauty. And yes, it gives the newbies something to do even when they're shattered, but you could just run around analysing like our newbies have to do when they're nailed in debate.

I don't know of many newbies with analyze, I do not have it (as far as I know...) hm.
Well I loved the recent influencing, would have been more fun if it was not peaced but, it was still really enjoyable for me. Maybe I'm just wierd like that?
Perhaps if you -HAVE- to change it... ; you could make the return for laetitia be based on knowledge of sacraments/necromancy so that having one nice high level chanter would be better than 2 or 3....but that would nerf the novices most of all.
love-mimi