Recently, having put some time into the skill of Astrology, an interesting question has struck me. The sign of Skull is aligned with the city of Magnagora - it is also, on different semantic levels, aligned with death, decay, and general unpleasantness. In terms of the Basin of Life, in other words, the sign of Skull has become synonomous with the Taint. This is juxtaposed with Magnagora's history as part of the Celestine Empire - certainly not a position or ideology in keeping with the image of the Skull starsign.

So my questions are thus:-

1. Has Capricorn/Skull (I'm treating them as the same sign under different guises, since this kind of works out if you think about it) -always- been the sign (and Astral sphere) of Magnagora?

2. Was Kethuru present (in whatever capacity) throughout the entire Astral plane, or simply in the sphere of Capricorn/Skull? Keeping in mind, of course, that Capricorn/Skull is in keeping with Kethuru's aspect - at least, in my mind. I am assuming at this point that Emperor Ladantine and his entourage travelled to the sphere of Capricorn/Skull from Magnagora's nexus.

3. Why was Magnagora chosen to launch Cosmic Hope in the first place?

finally, 4. If the above are valid in any sense, does this mean the release of the Taint would not have occurred if the Cosmic Hope expedition had used a different city's nexus to travel to the Astral Plane?

I realise that questions 2 and 4 are out on a limb - right at the very end, to tell the truth. But I'm merely curious to see if anyone else has any thoughts about this.

Okay, to answer your questions:

Skull is not a symbol of death, but rather of toughness and endurance. Just like the Death in tarot is a symbol of "beginning life anew" and not necessarily a bad omen, although laics often interpret it as one. So, it was completely understandable that Magnagora would have this symbol even before the Taint Wars.

Astrology signs, however, are NOT linked to the 12 spheres of Astral. ICly, it's just a coincidence that there are 12 of each. I understand that the spheres are named after RL astrological signs, but they are still not aligned in ANY way.

Kethuru is present with equal strength on all spheres of Astral, mostly the nodes. Why was Magnagora chosen? Reasons are unknown, but most likely because it was the most splending or pro-empire city of the Basin. Shallamar being the home of Fates would be a good trading card too.

Would Taint be released if Cosmic Hope started from some other city? Definately yes.

Lemme see if I can do this.

1) Before it got all tainty and twisted, Magnagora was home to a sect called the Fatalists, who focused on the Fates of Shallamar, the future, and... well, the inevitability of demise. Death's always been a part of Magnagora. It just got cast in a much different light.

2) From what I understand, Kethuru exists one realm beyond the Astral... if the Cosmic's considered half-formed, then the Astral's barely-formed, and Kethuru is kinda the embodiment of nothingness. Prodding about in the plane next door was probably what woke the Soulless wonder up. I believe he manifested in Capricorn because... well, that's just where the power drain was coming from.

3) Of the four cities, Magnagora was the one that wasn't experiencing domestic problems (see Hallifax,) generally chaotic (see Gaudiguch,) or crucial to the continuation of the Empire (see Celest.) It was very specifically not held in Celest, because it's just not good policy to subject your own capitol to the possibility of explosive failure.

4) If Cosmic Hope had been taken someplace else, I expect that it just would've been a different set of realms that received a Kethuru-powered makeover. It was probably a story decision more than anything else that Magnagora was "it," honestly... switching around Celest and Magnagora might've worked out just as well, in my opinion (the know-it-all holier-than-thous would just be a different race,) but Hallifax and Gaudiguch had a pre-existing, non-taint-based rivalry that was necessary for further development.

Now that I've written this, someone official please swing by and shoot me down. Thanks.

And skull is not a symbol of death! At least not in Lusternia.

I hate it when people make such easy, yet incorrect connections. Just like in the Grey Moors. "Oh, pretty kitties!" "Eww, eeeebil one-eyed brutes!" Pfft. Krokani might be crude grunts, but apart from Kar'chen they are not really evil. While the Aslarans are fanatics bent on destruction of the whole Krokani race (that's right! not only Kar'chen and his minions, ALL the krokani), ruled by a pansy boy.

two contradictory replies. Well, I guess I asked for this.

To begin with, I have a few things to add.

Cuber, you may very well be right that Skull doesn't necessarily represent death. That is, I suppose, open to interpretation - and it would make more sense if Skull was a symbol of resilience, given that the Ur'Guard and the Orclach had made Magnagora their home. Likewise, Thul, your idea sounds equally valid. I guess I didn't think much beyond the superficial meanings of Skull.... My bad.

And... perhaps the astrology signs *are* linked to the Astral Spheres. Why? Astroglide. Simply put, it is an Astrology skill that takes you to the Astral Sphere that is linked to your city. Okay, it's a little flimsy, but it does make sense. Likewise, the Astral spheres do sort of link up with the Zodiacal signs. Sort of.

As for Kethuru being present on all Spheres, I think both Cuber and Thul are right.... I like your explanation, by the way, Thul. It makes a lot of sense that way. So that shoots down one of my quasi-theories.

Hmm... If the Emperor himself was willing to be part of the expedition, why not simply base it at the Pool of Stars? Ladantine after the expedition was remarkably egocentric - this may or may not be reflective of his feelings before... but given the general nature of his declarations, I can't see him thinking that Magnagora would be more... 'disposable' than Celest. That's just my opinion, though. Having never met the Emperor before Cosmic Hope, this is pure speculation.

Two contradictory replies AND a rant. Welcome to the forums.

The astrospheres ARE linked in several ways to the Astral plane actually, not sure what Cuber is talking about.

Magnagora has always been linked to death/destruction.

Magnora, the goddess for who it is named, was a being of destruction.

Just to answer one of the points

Magnagora was chosen for good politics. It was a middle ground where no race was predominant and where everyone was ok with each other and also the second most light based city

They didn't chose Celest because it would look like the emperor was a despot that only cared for his city and not the whole empire

And if the taint would've landed on either Gaudiguch or Halifax then Kethuru would've not been stop because the short circuit of the Halifax project and Gaudiguch project caused Kethuru to lose the conection with the taint and thus it stopped infecting new people

Skull sphere != death

Skull can be taken as either meaning death or resilience. The connection with constitution is one indication of that; the link to the Fatalists is another; thne let's not forget that the Ur'Guard revered undeath even long before the Taint.

Only read the first post.

It makes sense that Magnagora's sign has always been the skull. Even before being tainted they were the city of earth, and the earth is in many ways linked to death (burial, natural decay enriching the soil, ect.). Also, though I'm not sure if the Ur'Guard were based in Magnagora they were certainly a part of the Empire, and likely had a branch operating in Magnagora.

As for Kethuru, I believe he was present throughout the entire plane and would have been able to make his way through any nexus or node. They likely didn't pick the Pool of Stars because it was too important for even the slightest amount of risk - why they picked the Stone of Truth, though, is a mystery.

EDIT: On the other hand, considering how greedy they were I'd imagine they'd want the power of the Supra Plane going directly to the Pool. Oh well. *shrug*

The Ur'guard where not a part of Magnagora, and they had a branch in every single village. Hence the shallach catacombs. They were the evil outlaying police force of the empire while the paladins whee the honourable bodyguards.

They weren't 'evil'. The Paladins were like a police force, and mostly ceremonial, while the Ur'guard were more like a standing army. And though they were not a specific part of Magnagora, they were a branch of the Empire, and so it makes sense that a city in the Empire should bear the sign of the skull.

For not being evil, they sure had thier hand in lots of quelching of rebelions...

Anytime dirtywork had to be done, they sent the ur'guard, anytime shiny nicieties had to be done, they sent the paladins.

The main headquarters of the Ur'guard was the Shallach Fort.

Yes, well, there's a difference between being ruthless and actually being 'evil'.

Nope, spider is death

The paladins were like the royal guard, they looked after the royality and the palace and the capital city, The ur'guard were more like the real police force and standing army of the realms they enforced and kept order everywhere else.

Oh, and the Ur'gaurd were also the "bad-asses of death" shock troops.