Anyone know where to find facts on this issue?

I read left wing reports that says that Bush is lieing, and has been lieing, but doesn't give any facts to back it up.

I read right wing reports that also, talk about Bush's process and repeats his words, which also, did not contain any facts on the subject...

Anyone know where to find these facts?

Here's some, if I find more, I'll edit this post...
comcast newsthingy
cnn

Am I understanding that article correctly?

Rather than allowing researchers to use leftover stem cells, opponents would rather they just be destroyed?

Precisely. Silly, isn't it?

Goddamn republicans.

Yeah, see thats why I wanted facts.

Luckily the newspaper that my Fiance gets has the facts, here they are.

S3504: Passed 100-0 in the SEnate and 425-0 in the house. It bans "fetus-farming" where you grow and abort fetuses for research

S2754: Pass 100-0 in the Senate, and Failed in the House, because of the Democrats motion (was never voted on in the House). Would have encouraged stem-cell research from sources other than Embryos. I find this fact the most important, and I now understand what the hell Bush was talking about when he said legislation was not passed. (At first I thought he was talking about the legistalation he was vetoing)

HR810: Passed by Senate 63-37, would lift Bush's executive order blocking FEDERAL funding for any stem-cell research using embryong stem-cells lines developed after Aug 6 2001.

Stem Cell research comes from 3 places:

1 From embryos which were intented to become children at fertility clinics, but ended up not being needed: can be turned into any organ.

2. From adult, child tissues. Can be turned into the organ its taken from

3. Cloned Adult cells, skin cells from adults get placed into an egg and stem cells are taken from there: Can only be used by the person donating the skin cell, but can become any organ.






There were atleast 10 people sitting with Bush who adopted "discarded embryos" which are now children. So there is no garantee that they will be destroyed.

I may have gotten the wrong meaning from this but...

If theyre not going to be used to make children wouldnt it be best to use them for improving life? I dunno, just my opinion really. Ive had too many people have organ problems in my family.

If the kid is going to die from cancer in two weeks anyways, isn't it better to just harvest his heart now to save the kid who just had a heart attack?


The embryos are frozen, they can be used to create children years from now if someone wanted to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4655035.stm

Yeah... but, if they're not used by the parents who supplied the genetic material, are they saying that organizations have the right to create babies with it anyway?

What if the two parents want to use fertility treatments to have their own child, but don't want to spawn a dozen other offspring to be adopted out (or sold) to others? They are either going to be committing murder (the 'proto-fetuses' will be destroyed) or they are just unused cells... you can't have it both ways.

The whole thing seems really weird to me. I mean, we don't make a big fuss about collecting viable sperm/eggs from people who just died so that the children they are supposed to be have a chance to be born.

There is a lot of wierd things we do in the law. All Bush is saying, is that his Executive order, to only fund research with Federal dollars of embryos allready existed before he enacted his executive order, will be upheld and can not be overturned.

This is as much an issue about the morality of stem-cell research, as it is, Bush keeping his executive orders.


Before Bush's executive order there was $0 for stem-cell research. Now there is some, but only for old embryos.

What I really don't get (ok, I do, because I understand politics) is why the Democrats didn't vote for funding research from non-embryo stem-cells.

Yeah, this isn't really attributed to "republicans" it's more their personal morality issues with doing research on an unborn baby.

The general idea is all embryos used would be donated, so it's not like they're stealing embryos parents are waiting around to have a kid with. However, to each his own, I don't think Bush should have veto'd it but unfortunately Congress doesn't have enough votes to over-ride the veto.

Yes, in my opinion.



If something IS going to be discarded, not the ones they may save, if you're about to toss something in the trash, why not use it instead?

Would life be simpler if Humanity never came up with technology?

Thats scary.

Thats what Hitler argued when he tortured twins during WWII for medical experiments.


Whats getting me really mad about all this, is that there were 3 or 4 (the news reports are getting confusing) different bills that were introduced. The bill Bush's vetoed is the least encompassing of them. It really looks to me like Bush didn't want to have his executive order overrulesd, and nobody is talking about that angle of it.

And the one bill that would have really increased funding for medical research, without entering the debate of when does a person become a person, got shot down for procedural issues by democrats....




Huh? the technology is still going on. Its only a question of Federal funding....

California gave a 300 billion dollar grant for stem-cell research in 2004, but ofcourse everyone wants access to that money, so no programs have actually been started yet.

But if there was never technology... WWII never would have happened or WWI... none of these arguements would be going on... there'd be no HUGE worldwide problems, we'd al be happily hunting food sitting in caves and wondering when we'd eat next. No prblems but if we're hungry of other base animal needs... somehow it seems better than having to work, and live in pollution creating cities that's kiling the nviorment ... and so on. If we were just sitting in our tirbal caves, never having had technology we'd be entirely happy, and not slowly destroying the world....... Back to the topic on hand.




Each life is precious in it's self, but the frozen embyro's are donated by parents knowing that thier (ummmm....) -insert word that fits- might go to waste, but they don't want the child and don't want to have an abortion, so prehaps, yes it is alright for the embyro's to be used to save someones life.

Not saying this as historical fact, but more of a representation of human nature.

Even in the garden of delights, where nothing was needed, there was conflict and distress and problems in less than a day. (adam and eve story)


Also, embryo's are not being used to save somebody's life. Embryos are being used to MAYBE in the Future, give soemone the POSSIBILITY of learning a means to reduce the suffering people experience from deseases. And maybe 20 years after that they will figure out how to cure things. However, embryos are not the only way to discover those cures. Stem-cells are the only way, but embryos are not the only means to getting stem cells.

Oh... thats a bit different ... how big is their supposed chance?

And about the adam& Eve thing, at least it was a little problem not one thats causing thousands of us to go insane at each other. In the wise word of some philospher I can't remeber... "Savvy?" Oh wait thats just Cap'n Jack... what was I thinking of again?

EDIT: Lets get to the proper topic now Daganev, if you want you win.

I don't know, nobody is discussing the facts.

The Left is saying that Bush just told your grandmother that she's not going to get cured. (nobody says that this research is going to yield anything in the next 5 years, more like the next 15 0r 20, so your grandmother will probabbly be dead anyways)

The right is saying that nomatter what would happen, you can't use people as spare parts.

This isn't a religious issue though. Its a debate on when you consider life to be human life. There is no debate that an Embryo is life. Its also a debate on when you can "use" humans as medical parts.


ps. on last jibe... Cain killed Abel over a debate of Vegitarniasm vs Meat eating, thats 1/4 of the world's population destroyed! And no technology was used, not even a stone!

heres an odd question for you if you believe that it was just the 4 of them: Where did the boys wives come from Incest? I'm mean. Plus theres never a mention of Eve having girls so... suddenly appearing people or the boys... oh god...

Now that I'm terrified of that topic.... wait... if the Left is saying it's wrong and the Right is saying it's wrong whats Bush the Middle?!

Oops...Server Lag