Alright, I'm in a bind. I've changed to Celestine and quite frankly, the class isn't nearly as great I thought it was going to be! While I do like all the various methods to kill, I find myself stuck on how to properly strategize. Specifically, Celestines opperate on a timer (which I didn't realize was as bad till I was fighting under it). Once, Wrath (makes the angel hit with 2 afflictions, 10p) and Fool/Enigma (11p) poof, a Celestine literally has -no- offense whatsoever. Inquisition is promising - but I find most decent combatants are well versed in the "get your ass out of the way" tactic as soon as Heretic hits, such as Nirrti who was moving 10 rooms away and letting Heretic just fade. Soulless is pretty damn fun (and my most effective means to kill), but it also takes forever to charge and isn't feasible in most situations outside the arena.

One advantage I liked being a Moondancer was that should a given tactic fail, it didn't cost me 21p or over 3 minutes to regroup. I also dislike being as a tanky as a mage (which after testing with Munsia, I have confirmed to be the case). From any given attack, I take only 200/350 less damage, which doesn't begin to compensate for a full demesne, telekinetic daggers, etc. While trueheal/hermit as VERY nice and I love them both, I have a cubix should I desire a quick exit from most places and if you wish to in any way offensively fight, trueheal is out of the question.

In the end, I just don't see what is so great about being a Celestine. I've went so far as to spar a few Celestines to see if I could pick up any strategies and largely, I find myself utterly immune to anything that can be thrown my way (which btw I am immune to Inquisition/Judge as a Sacraments user). This leads me to believe (as my curing isn't exactly the best of the best) that outside of Inquisition/Judge, there isn't a whole lot to do.

In past spars with Amaru, the Celestine expert, I only died to Inquisition/Soulless and even then, I was able to escape it most of the time with a pooka force, fear enchantment, spores, etc. As such even though I was willing to give it my best effort, I'm a bit disappointed with what is known as "overpowered." Nirrit, as a Blacktalon, was damn near kicking my ass (and I had no problems with Nirrti whatsoever as a Moondancer... in fact, she usually went down relatively fast). Celestines also seem 100% dependent on aeon/anorexia/stupidity, which I find most people (versus a year ago) cure well enough that it isn't too much of a problem (we can all thank the dozen pirated copies of Murphy's system for that one).

So... where should I go? I've mostly made up my mind to go Telekinetic Aquamancer. It has strong combat potential, a room attack, barrier, phantoms (which is damn nice with high intelligence, pulling like 600-800 passive damage here and there), forcefield, passive affliction/health/mana/ego/wounds healing, etc. Mages seem to be the end-all/be-all of group combat (which I enjoy the most). Illusions is just a GREAT skillset and very much under appreciated, bubble, daggers (which work from a distance and stack well with hailstorm in group combat), heartburst, etc.

I'm also considering Telepathic Aquamancer for ungodly offense. Short and sweet, no skillset comes close to being as insane as Telepathy with psychic vampirism, almighty mindblast, etc.

Finally, I was thinking about maybe Paladin Bonecrusher with Sacraments. Nico scares me

I'd go telepathic aqua. I was blown away by how wonderful they are when trying on the test server.

illusions. no power simultaneous masked afflictions. aqua demesne.



I found telekinetic had more utility - barrier, bashing potential, forcefield... but much less offensive might and interesting possibilities as telepathic.

I am also a dunce when it comes to high-level combat, so my opinion doesn't count for that much.

Edit: OH, AND TWIRL STAFF!!!

Aquas are fun, not a bad demesne.

I'm also willing to concede that since I haven't been a Celestine, I don't fully grasp the class. I'm more than willing to hear anyone share some useful strategies.

Well duh. I could have told you that. I've been saying that for over a year. I'm just too stubborn to switch classes. I don't know how Clise does it. She's the best fighter we have, IMHO. (I don't count certain La'Saets).

Mindblast so needs nerfage

Celestines have no offense. Period. We are a support class, for group combat. 1v1, we fail. Next topic please?

Paladin FTW

I say go bonecrusher. But then i'm biased because I think everyone should be a warrior.

Do continue, but I've already went Aqua. Woot for decent skills and no 40 second timer.

I think you gave up Celestines far too quickly, but your choice I suppose, at least now we'll have another melder with skills to use in the demesne I found combat as a mage to be rather dull, especially as I was a mage for so long, longer then pretty much any other active Aquamancer. Celestines are much more interesting, and I'm happy being the support class I guess

Rauros, you're kidding, right?

Amaru and Shamarah are probably the best Celestines right now, imho.

I think Aquas are more support than Celestines. Tarot can get nasty. We have to meld whenever Celestia is getting raided. That gets old. Fast.

EDIT: Then again... I often just ask the Celestines to whore certain Tarot cards if we're in a group.

I cannot imagine a Celestine touching me as an Aquamancer with passive affliction curing. While you could just whore lust continually, you cannot out-hinder psionics so...

Yet! I know the admin are contemplating some possibilities for psionic hindering, so they might be imposed soon.

But yes, mindblast needs to be nerfed.

Are you kidding me? Celestines are ****ing insane. Soulless, inquisition, absolve, nice angel afflicts (vapors kthx), ect. They're far and above better than Nihilists, and better than most other classes with the addition of symbols, non-repeating thrall attacks, and non-random thrall afflictions. You ought to be way more powerful than you were before.

1. Soulless takes both time to create and is easy disrupted by movement (which no Celestine can block tumbling), fear enchant (which almost instantly cancels it), etc. I found myself getting the living crap beat out of me by most people just trying to get 7 rubs.

2. Inquisition is -extremely- easy to avoid 1-on-1.

3. Absolve is pretty difficult to achieve. With quickening up, I can out pace anyone draining me fairly easily and should I desire breathing room, I shield twice in a row.

4. Vapors is decent, yes... but it doesn't too much for a Celestine other than mask a Soulless fling. Likewise, I tend to conserve allheale so I can instantly cancel the blackout.

Symbols BLOW ARSE. With 18 intelligence and a war blessing, I did like 205 damage to Munsia. -205- damage! To anyone with trans magic and a magic proof (let alone defenses against magic), I was lucky to break 500-600 damage. Symbol evocations are a joke. If you can't handle a 2.5 second paralyse/anorexia/etc, you have issues.

More or less, Celestines have to lock a target down to kill. To achieve this, you have to stick aeon. That's not easy to do on people who cure well.

Guido, have you ever played a Celestine? Just because Amaru and Shamarah play their class well does not mean the class itself is not flawed. I'm just glad a top fighter, like Narsrim, is finally noticing this to say something about it.

People have some surprising misconceptions about Celestine. It's a powerful class with some excellent skills, but it's not the powerhouse people think. It's not even that much better than the Nihilist class, since Celestines don't have barbedtail and are thusly inferior in terms of dealing reliable afflictions throughout the fight.

Anyway, yeah. I'd advise going telekinetic Aqua if you're planning on participating more in group combat and bashing, and telepathic if you're more interested in 1v1 combat.

While I have much respect for Amaru as a Celestine, we eventually decided sparring was pointless. I refused under any circumstances whatsoever to stay in the room when Heretic hit. I also refused to not attack his angel until it started shielding and thus decreased his offense to 1/2 afflictions every 16 seconds. The only time I sparred him with Hexes as a Moondancer, I won.

I would say that Guardians in general do rock mages with active lust, but that's it, truly.

I've been Celestine...and Nihilist. Celestines are far superior in combat offense than Nihilists, though Nihilists have better defence. You don't have to lock anyone down really, just slow them enough for an instant-kill of your choosing. As a nihilist, you DO have to stick aeon for any chance though, since both of our instantkills requires multiple conditions to be met. I will say though, it takes awhile to get the class down and learn how to be effective.