I've just been looking at the Totem Specializations and realizing how they are work so much better for Druids and Dancers and absolutely blow for the commune Warriors. As many Ebonguards can attest, most of Night is completely useless for them except from 2-3 skills. This is very similar for Moon since the few offensive abilities such as Succumb/Choke/Waning/Lash/Moonburst/Nightkiss are all essentially useless for Warriors while the rest are all either defensive or coven-related skills (which really bugs me, why the hell are Warriors joining hands in a circle? ).

The Stag and Crow specializations are a little better with the utility skills they get, but most commune Warriors don't pick these two specializations because Stagform and Crowform pale in comparison to Drawdown and Nightkiss.

On the other hand, city Warriors have it much better with Sacraments and Necromancy (even though the ur'Guard will still claim it's rather weak) since they can still take advantage of the many combat abilities in them.

I know that Druidism and Wiccans have some different skills for Hartstone/Blacktalon and Moondancer/Shadowdancer as to make them somewhat unique from each other. Perhaps something of a similar nature can be done for the four Totem specialisations to make them complement better for Warriors?

I'd say look at Stagform and Crowform to begin with. Drawdown and Nightkiss are by far the main reason many warriors take Moon and Night, I'd assume. Stagform is nothing compared to Drawdown. While they're roughly equal in other areas, Stagform has nothing to compare to 20% damage reduction and +10 to every weapon stat.

That is true. The only other options why they would select Stag over Moon are facepaints and parade. Other than that....

I still think that Moon Warriors are better at afflicting than city dwellers, Weapon stats are increased by drawdown, damage protection is a great addition to their tankiness, and another point because they can get a chance to get aeon stuck in their targets. With aeon and wounding afflicts, they could get a big advantage over their enemies.

Coven fuctions are only a side-dish

Crow is far superior to Night for Ebonguard imo. Dark Spirits, Flying, +2 intelligence buff (Dark Spirits + Crowform), Eyepeck (insanely fast), Facepaints (spiderwebs facepaint annoys me to no end... I swear Nirrti shrugged off 5-6 webs in a row), etc.

As for Stag versus Moon, I disagree that Moon is innately better. Stagstomp would be great during a slit lock, Gore is actually useful for high strength Serenguard, Facepaints seem to near 100% block forces now plus give faster balance, medicine bag is great for wound curing (if it works), faster movement in stagform is always useful, +1 dex is better for some warriors than +1 int, ancestral curse has better afflictions than dark moon (although it doesn't strip), etc. Sacrifice is also quite insane for high-health persons.

Ah actually, your right. I havent thought of those skills in conjuction with warrior skills. True. The medicinebag is another plus.

And I didnt know the truehart facepaint is now working either. Good to hear that.

Stagform has Gore and +1 DEX, which are worthless to a druid. In theory, it would be worthwhile on a high str warrior, but in practice, it has some issues. As Shorlen, I never even put it up except in the arena - unless I'm stagstomping constantly, it just isn't worth the 10p cost. Apart from the convienence of making me move twice as fast, ALL it does is give me cheaper stagstomp/parade, and level 1 health regen.

Dunno, it sounds like a lot now, especially for a warrior... But for a trans 10p skill? It just doesn't compare with Drawdown, I guess. I'm not sure how noticable +1 dex is.

Hrm, to compare moon and stag for a warrior:

Moon
Rather useful skills: Aura, Waxing, Full, Drawdown
Maybe useful skills: Shafts, Dark
Useless skills: Lash
Non-combat skills: Coven, Beam, Light, Cone, Harvest, Resurgem, Conclave, Rage

Stag
Rather useful skills: Swiftstripes, Medicinebag, Stagtotem, Stagform
Maybe useful skills: Parade, Ringwalk, Stagstomp, Bellow (same as headslam in 1v1), Ancestral Curse
Useless skills: Bolting, Lightning, TotemReturn, headbutt (tackle/barge/etc are better)
Non-combat: Pacing, Greenman, Bonding, Sacrifice, Trueheart

Now the question is, HOW useful are these skills?

Moon
------
Aura gives 20% magic resistance. No class that does magic damage kills with it, and there are TONS of other magic resistance buffs.

Waxing is active healing - not so useful during a fight usually, especially for a warrior who can't stop his offense to heal.

Full is the same as Green/Gedwhatever, but it heals 3 afflictions instead of 2. Meh.

Drawdown is OMGWTFAWESOME. 20% damage resistance, +10 to all weapon stats. +1 int. Level 1 mana regen. Amazing skill, and a good reason to argue against making Moon better for warriors.

Beam is also simply amazing.

Dark is... questionable. It's 8p for the room version, 5p for the single target version, which only lasts a few seconds. Warriors can get you in a room and keep you there, I guess. Don't warriors NEED their power for crushes, lunges, and assaults though?

Stag
-----
Trueheart gives 50% chance to resist beckon or a dominate effect (but doesn't make the controller lose control). Nice, but nothing amazing.

Parade is nice against a demesne user, but lovepotion does the same thing. Druids can't use lovepotion because they need to keep people enemied. Warriors don't have that problem generally.

Swiftstripes is a level 1 balance bonus (at the cost of a level 1 eq penalty). This is nice, but drawdown gives +10 to weapon speed. Which is better? I don't know. Easily the best stag skill for a warrior, and Moon has something that does an equivilent.

Stagtotem is a five power skill that passively heals you and all allies and cures you and all allies of an affliction every little bit. Very nice, but costs 5p. Rather nice if you aren't moving, but chances are they ARE moving, as noone sits in one place while fighting a warrior. Takes five power though.

Medicinebag gives a level 2 or 3 sip bonus while unentangled and unparalysed. Very nice for tanking, but the 20% damage resistance from drawdown is just better.

Stagform is 10p, gives level 1 regen, gore, level 1 health regen, +1 dex, faster movement.

Gore - This 2p attack really SHOULD be worthwhile for warriors. It really should. It's worthless for druids, of course, since not only do they have low str, it uses balance, and druids are going to have lightning facepaint on, which gives them a balance penalty. The problem is that it isn't good. It does high damage, sure, but the impale is deadly since not only can you do nothing with it, you can't withdraw. Does it do more damage than a combo? That's a good question.

Ancestral Curse - same comments as dark, only there is no targetted version. Only a room attack for 8p.


To compare the two, let's look at Drawdown, since that's really the only amazing skill of Moon for warriors.

- Medicinebag: 20% (?) sip bonus while unhindered, limited uses vs Drawdown: 20% all resist
Drawdown is clearly better, since it takes no effort to use. Both essentially improve tanking ability by 20%.

- Stagform: level 1 health regen vs Drawdown: level 1 mana regen, +1 int
Drawdown makes for easier and better surging. Stagform just gives some health regen. I think drawdown wins out here personally.

- Swiftstripes: Level 1 balance bonus, level 1 eq penalty vs Drawdown: +10 weapon speed
Questionable. Swiftstripes effects skills other than weapon swings, so stag probably wins out here slightly even if the +10 weapon speed is about equal to a level 1 balance bonus at the high levels (I have no idea if it is or not). The level 1 eq penalty is a bit annoying though due to things like stagstomp and daydreams.

- Stagform: +1 to dex vs Drawdown: +10 to weapon percision
I have no idea how much dex effects wounding, nor how much +10 percision effects wounding.

- Ancestral Curse vs Dark
I'm not sure which wins out here, but neither are terribly useful if you need to save power for other things. Dark is almost certainly better though, since it strips AND afflicts.

- Stagform: +2 rooms per second movement vs Beam
Beam wins, hands down, no argument there.

The rest:
- Drawdown: +10 to weapon damage stat.
- Stagform: Gore - not that great, but should be!
- Stattotem - questionably useful for the reasons stated above


Looking at all of this, Moon just seems blanketly better. Everything that Stag does, Moon does as well or better. I do think though that if Gore was made usable, it could balance Stag with Moon. Gore does high damage, but so does a combo. A combo does deepwounds as well, and deepwound afflictoins. Gore just impales, with no means of escape, if they were near death.

Moon is annoying though, since 90% of the worthwhile bits of Moon are given by the trans skill, which just seems silly. An entire skillset shouldn't be there just for one amazing skill.

I agree with Shorlen. Stag has some very nice things, but Drawdown is just incredible.

As a titan damage warrior, I'd pick night as an ebonguard for steal and NK, but as a wounding non-titan warrior I'd say crow is a rather fine choice. Flying is a huge advantage- Huge. The web shrug is a solid asset too.

For one, slitlock is absurdly hard to get with any reliability as a BM- PB's can get it a little easier. Trueheart seemed to be about 50% or so, not 100% in my experience. Medicinebag works now, and is simply amazing, point there. Movement and dex are better than nothing, but I'd rather have int no matter what my race and especially for those slow stupid races who play slow tanks (igasho/tae'dae/dwarf). Sacrifice would be awesome to have... *drool* If I were to go stag that'd be the most convincing factor I think.

>Flying is a huge advantage- Huge.

Except that most ebonguard are faelings anyways...

+10 speed is such a small difference that the human eye can't notice it. +1 balance bonus, however, is not.

I found swiftstripes and stagtotem the most useful Stag abilities for warriors. In theory at least, because I never had a chance to test the skill in practice.

Random question - does Medicinebag stack with racial sip bonuses?

When I was an urguard I remember everone complaining that Necromancy worked so much better with nihilists and Ur'guard got the shaft save for Lichdom and one or two other skills.

I'd imagine Medicine Bag should stack with sip bonus. However, there is an inherent problem with Medicinebag for a Serenguard and that is you can't touch it while off arm balance but can off full balance or eq. This alone makes it impractical to use for a Serenguard, especialy since you can't do it with broken arms as well.


How is Stagstomp useful for a slit lock? Firstly, nothing stops you from concentrating out of it, and secondly, in order to use Stag Stomp the target has to be proned first. The only reliable methods Warriors can use to knock people proned are- Knockdown (Medium wound: BC/AL) or Sever Tendon (Critical wound: BM/PB). In this respect Axelord would be superior but in all honesty I only know of three Axelords total in existence namely because that specialisation is so subpar to all the other Warrior specialisations.

Gore is not useful for high Strength Serenguard at all. When Malicia was still a Serenguard I tested Gore quite a bit with her. Two of her sword slashes did more damage than Gore would, without the two power cost as well as able to do Wounds and afflictions, and a chance to deliver poisons. Gore is absolutely and utterly useless, considering the power cost. The half-health impale and quarter-health instantkill are useful sure, but the Stag user can't do anything with his antlers impaled and if you can get someone down to 1/4 health, you probably won't need Gore to finish them off.

Both of those problems have long since been corrected. Observe:

3181h, 4590m, 4791e, 10p, 14830en, 21850w ex-swing weevil
touch medicinebag
You wildly swing a mystic cudgel at a giant red weevil. Your weapon pounds
through the air, missing completely.
3181h, 4590m, 4791e, 10p, 14817en, 21850w ex-
You touch your medicine bag and feel your wounds close and heal.
3186h, 4590m, 4791e, 10p, 14817en, 21850w ex-
A giant red weevil wounds you with a glancing cut.
3139h, 4590m, 4791e, 10p, 14827en, 21850w ex-
You have recovered balance on your left arm.
3139h, 4590m, 4791e, 10p, 14827en, 21850w ex-
You may use another health, mana, or bromide potion, or medicine bag.

2360h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15240en, 20992w xk-
Methrenton, Crusader of the Holy Flame brings his flaming holy sword down upon
you, its divine blade easily cleaving through bone and flesh.
You cease to wield a mystic cudgel.
With a graceful spin, a celestial archangel slaps Ildaudid with a flash of
light, causing him to reel backwards.
A celestial archangel shoots a bolt of blinding light at Marcalo.
Marcalo swoons for a moment then rises again, flushed but strong.
1147h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15240en, 20992w xk-
.
. (OH GODS THE SPAM! Edited to the next thing that involved me)
.
1147h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20998w xk-
You may use another health, mana, or bromide potion, or medicine bag.

1147h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20998w xk-invoke circle
You touch your medicine bag and feel your wounds close and heal.
2099h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20998w xk-
Ildaudid takes a drink from an amethyst vial.
2099h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20998w xk-
You have recovered equilibrium.
2099h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20998w exk-
Trasse takes a drink from a garnet vial.
2099h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20998w exk-
You bleed 79 health.
2020h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20998w exk-
Both your arms must be free and functioning to do that.
Broken ? arm afflict - cure: mena
apply mending to arms
2020h, 5063m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20998w exk-
2020h, 5009m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20986w exk-
Haiden takes a drink from an emerald vial.
2020h, 5009m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20986w exk-
Telrath takes a drink from a bloodstone vial.
2020h, 5009m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20986w exk-
You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your arms.
The bones in your left arm mend.
leftarmbreak unafflict caught
2020h, 5009m, 4356e, 10p, 15250en, 20986w exk-

As you can clearly see, neither statement is true any longer. However, you cannot touch a medicinebag if you are entangled or paralysed. THAT much is true.


Can someone who is experienced with warrior combat suggest something to make Gore useful? The nice thing about Gore is that it ignores rebounding, stance, and parry. The not-nice things about Gore are that it costs 2p, does no wounds or deepwound afflictions, does less damage than a combo, instakills only if they would die anyway, and impales if they are at half health (before or after the Gore damage?) with no way to use the impale effectively or remove the impale.

Maybe let you rend antlers like you can with swords?

It looks like you can't touch Medicinebag with both arms off balance, which is pretty much pointless for a Warrior since we'll always be off both arms hitting people. You can still touch it with no balance though .

Yeah poor Stag Seren

5240h, 7289m, 5923e, 10p exk<>-shieldstun ter
swing ter left hand

You swing a golden sunburst shield with all your might, smashing it into the
head of Terenas with a resounding ring.
5240h, 7289m, 5923e, 10p exk<>-
You wildly swing a mystic cudgel at Terenas. You pound him on the right leg,
leaving only a red welt.
5240h, 7289m, 5923e, 10p exk<>-touch medicinebag

As both your arms are disfunctional, you cannot do that.

Looks like a bug to me if you can do it off balance/eq, and off single arm balance. Did either of you BUG it?

Bugged, let's hope it'll actually get fixed just to help the Stag users out.

And hopefully you'll get the ability to REND or WITHDRAW your antlers. Rend would be awesome, and it would work really well, considering Druids are already supposed to be bleed machines, and would help make up for BT being otherwise far more nasty.