Unknown2006-09-20 13:20:49
Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with newbies. I don't really care if they like PK or not, they can choose to do whatever they like. This is for established players and the balance of PK in Lusternia.
I'm also aware this is very hard to follow and I'm not explaining it very well, but I want to pen it down before I forget. I'd prefer constructive comments and criticism, but I expect the pyre.
Changes to Karma
When you kill someone anywhere in Lusternia, you will lose a calculated amount of karma and karmic reserves (the maximum amount of karma you can store) depending on the relative levels and might between the attackers and victim. The amount could be calculated as follows:
IF ( - victim's level ) EQUALS
0 - 10 : No karma loss
10 - 20 : 1% karma/reserves lost
20 - 30 : 2% karma/reserves lost
30 - 40 : 3% karma/reserves lost
40 - 50 : 4% karma/reserves lost
50 - 60 : 5% karma/reserves lost
60 - 70 : 6% karma/reserves lost
70+ : 7% karma/reserves lost
=PLUS=
IF ( ) EQUALS
0% - 25% : 3% karma/reserves lost
25% - 40% : 2% karma/reserves lost
40% - 50% : 1% karma/reserves lost
50%+ : No karma loss
This means you would lose between 0-10% of your karma and maximum karma for each death. If you attack someone approximately equal to your might, you should lose next to nothing. If you attack someone below your might, you lose a small amount of karma. If you jump someone much weaker than yourself, you will find it much more difficult to maintain high levels of karma.
You cannot fall below 20% for your maximum karma reserves. Further deaths may drain your actual karma, but your maximum will not decrease. Each game month, your karma reserves will grow by 2%. This means if you engage in excessive PK, not only will you be unable to maintain blessings, you will be easy to curse, regardless of how good a basher you might be.
Additionally, the karma gain from bashing and influencing would be reduced to reflect this is a quantity that takes time to restore as you don't need it on every death. I would also like to see the blessings greatly weakened in effect as I don't like the importance which they have necessarily developed to combat effective characters, but I doubt this would go down well.
Exception: If you kill someone that is inside enemy territory to which you are loyal, your karmic reserves increase by 4%, and the regular loss is completely mitigated.
Example:
Bob is level 60, and Jane is level 80. Bob is 120% Jane's might. If Jane kills Bob, the difference in their levels is 20, so she will lose only 1% karma and 1% from her maximum. Since Bob has greater might, no further loss occurs.
Before the fight, Bob's karma might have been 75%/100%.
After the fight, Bob's karma becomes 74%/99%.
Dick is level 85, Harry is level 55, and Tom is level 40. Tom is 45% of Dick's might, and 1% of Harry's might. If Dick and Harry jump Tom and kill him, Dick will lose 1% from the might calculation, and 3% from the level calculation (avg=70, + 10 for two attackers = 80. Then 80-40 = 40, which is 3%). Harry will lose 3% from the might calculation, and 3% from the level calculation.
Changes to Avenger
You will not need to declare someone unless you have already killed them once. The system will autodeclare you otherwise.
On killing someone in a manner in which you have been the instigator ("declared"), you will gain victory status over your victim. This will last for four RL days and has no tangible punishment for the killer. If your victim initiates an attack upon you in this time, it disappears.
If you choose to attack someone who you have victory status on, you will need to manually declare before any action will go through, like it is currently. If you kill them after declaring, you will gain bully status over your victim. Note that bully status would be the result if you kill someone twice through vitae. This will last for thirty RL days and will allow your victim to karma curse you if they choose, clearing all status between you.
If you choose to attack someone who you have bully status on, you will again need to manually declare before any action will go through. If you kill them after declaring, they will gain vengeance status and be able to invoke Avenger to punish you.
The 10-suspect auto-vengeance limit will be removed.
Changes to Experience
Your initial experience loss on death will be based upon a set amount that is determined by your level. This is then reduced by a certain factor, calculated based on the relative levels and might of your attackers. This might function as:
IF ( - victim's level ) EQUALS
0 - 10 : 95%
10 - 20 : 90%
20 - 30 : 85%
30 - 40 : 80%
40 - 50 : 75%
50 - 60 : 70%
60 - 70 : 65%
70+ : 60%
So for instance, in the two examples above:
Bob is level 60, and Jane is level 80. Bob is 120% Jane's might. If Jane kills Bob, the difference in their levels is 20, so his scaling factor will be 90%. Thus Bob will lose 90% of the regular amount... a small bonus for Bob.
Dick is level 85, Harry is level 55, and Tom is level 40. Tom is 45% of Dick's might, and 1% of Harry's might. If Dick and Harry jump Tom and kill him, Tom will have a scaling factor of 80%, reducing his experience loss by 1/5.
Additionally, and I almost forgot this... the experience penalty for being inside enemy territory will be removed.
I'm also aware this is very hard to follow and I'm not explaining it very well, but I want to pen it down before I forget. I'd prefer constructive comments and criticism, but I expect the pyre.
Changes to Karma
When you kill someone anywhere in Lusternia, you will lose a calculated amount of karma and karmic reserves (the maximum amount of karma you can store) depending on the relative levels and might between the attackers and victim. The amount could be calculated as follows:
IF ( - victim's level ) EQUALS
0 - 10 : No karma loss
10 - 20 : 1% karma/reserves lost
20 - 30 : 2% karma/reserves lost
30 - 40 : 3% karma/reserves lost
40 - 50 : 4% karma/reserves lost
50 - 60 : 5% karma/reserves lost
60 - 70 : 6% karma/reserves lost
70+ : 7% karma/reserves lost
=PLUS=
IF ( ) EQUALS
0% - 25% : 3% karma/reserves lost
25% - 40% : 2% karma/reserves lost
40% - 50% : 1% karma/reserves lost
50%+ : No karma loss
This means you would lose between 0-10% of your karma and maximum karma for each death. If you attack someone approximately equal to your might, you should lose next to nothing. If you attack someone below your might, you lose a small amount of karma. If you jump someone much weaker than yourself, you will find it much more difficult to maintain high levels of karma.
You cannot fall below 20% for your maximum karma reserves. Further deaths may drain your actual karma, but your maximum will not decrease. Each game month, your karma reserves will grow by 2%. This means if you engage in excessive PK, not only will you be unable to maintain blessings, you will be easy to curse, regardless of how good a basher you might be.
Additionally, the karma gain from bashing and influencing would be reduced to reflect this is a quantity that takes time to restore as you don't need it on every death. I would also like to see the blessings greatly weakened in effect as I don't like the importance which they have necessarily developed to combat effective characters, but I doubt this would go down well.
Exception: If you kill someone that is inside enemy territory to which you are loyal, your karmic reserves increase by 4%, and the regular loss is completely mitigated.
Example:
Bob is level 60, and Jane is level 80. Bob is 120% Jane's might. If Jane kills Bob, the difference in their levels is 20, so she will lose only 1% karma and 1% from her maximum. Since Bob has greater might, no further loss occurs.
Before the fight, Bob's karma might have been 75%/100%.
After the fight, Bob's karma becomes 74%/99%.
Dick is level 85, Harry is level 55, and Tom is level 40. Tom is 45% of Dick's might, and 1% of Harry's might. If Dick and Harry jump Tom and kill him, Dick will lose 1% from the might calculation, and 3% from the level calculation (avg=70, + 10 for two attackers = 80. Then 80-40 = 40, which is 3%). Harry will lose 3% from the might calculation, and 3% from the level calculation.
Changes to Avenger
You will not need to declare someone unless you have already killed them once. The system will autodeclare you otherwise.
On killing someone in a manner in which you have been the instigator ("declared"), you will gain victory status over your victim. This will last for four RL days and has no tangible punishment for the killer. If your victim initiates an attack upon you in this time, it disappears.
If you choose to attack someone who you have victory status on, you will need to manually declare before any action will go through, like it is currently. If you kill them after declaring, you will gain bully status over your victim. Note that bully status would be the result if you kill someone twice through vitae. This will last for thirty RL days and will allow your victim to karma curse you if they choose, clearing all status between you.
If you choose to attack someone who you have bully status on, you will again need to manually declare before any action will go through. If you kill them after declaring, they will gain vengeance status and be able to invoke Avenger to punish you.
The 10-suspect auto-vengeance limit will be removed.
Changes to Experience
Your initial experience loss on death will be based upon a set amount that is determined by your level. This is then reduced by a certain factor, calculated based on the relative levels and might of your attackers. This might function as:
IF ( - victim's level ) EQUALS
0 - 10 : 95%
10 - 20 : 90%
20 - 30 : 85%
30 - 40 : 80%
40 - 50 : 75%
50 - 60 : 70%
60 - 70 : 65%
70+ : 60%
So for instance, in the two examples above:
Bob is level 60, and Jane is level 80. Bob is 120% Jane's might. If Jane kills Bob, the difference in their levels is 20, so his scaling factor will be 90%. Thus Bob will lose 90% of the regular amount... a small bonus for Bob.
Dick is level 85, Harry is level 55, and Tom is level 40. Tom is 45% of Dick's might, and 1% of Harry's might. If Dick and Harry jump Tom and kill him, Tom will have a scaling factor of 80%, reducing his experience loss by 1/5.
Additionally, and I almost forgot this... the experience penalty for being inside enemy territory will be removed.
Unknown2006-09-20 15:25:31
I don't like anything that takes might or levels into account, simply because neither high might nor high level makes someone a competent warrior and having neither low might nor low level makes someone more innocent than anyone else.
I like the changes that were made to the Avenger whereby the number of people you bully affects how steeply you are punished with each successive kill. This makes more sense because it more directly correlates with the amount of "trouble" they start (on Prime, at least). It would be great if we had a way of doing a sort of auto-defend on friends when we need to help them out. Many people are afraid of bullying others and don't wish to declare anyone, but they forget that they can often times defend another who is being attacked and avoid the bullying that way. (This could also be considered a loophole since I think the attacker's friends could defend him in a similar way.)
I'd like to gain karma from killing people in enemy territory when I'm the one defending my territory, too. The times I've killed enemies in my home territory, I've lost karma just because I killed someone, which always confused me. Enemies who raid ought to lose a little karma and natives who defend ought to gain a little.
I like the changes that were made to the Avenger whereby the number of people you bully affects how steeply you are punished with each successive kill. This makes more sense because it more directly correlates with the amount of "trouble" they start (on Prime, at least). It would be great if we had a way of doing a sort of auto-defend on friends when we need to help them out. Many people are afraid of bullying others and don't wish to declare anyone, but they forget that they can often times defend another who is being attacked and avoid the bullying that way. (This could also be considered a loophole since I think the attacker's friends could defend him in a similar way.)
I'd like to gain karma from killing people in enemy territory when I'm the one defending my territory, too. The times I've killed enemies in my home territory, I've lost karma just because I killed someone, which always confused me. Enemies who raid ought to lose a little karma and natives who defend ought to gain a little.
Unknown2006-09-20 16:25:32
Not to run down anything that Avaer has done, but I don't like the Karma system at all. I'd like to see the whole thing abolished.
Sylphas2006-09-20 19:48:57
My wild and crazy PK idea:
1. Log into Imperian.
2. HELP PK.
3. Shrub the assholes.
1. Log into Imperian.
2. HELP PK.
3. Shrub the assholes.
Unknown2006-09-20 23:10:23
QUOTE(Zarquan @ Sep 20 2006, 03:25 PM) 333642
I don't like anything that takes might or levels into account, simply because neither high might nor high level makes someone a competent warrior and having neither low might nor low level makes someone more innocent than anyone else.
I like the changes that were made to the Avenger whereby the number of people you bully affects how steeply you are punished with each successive kill. This makes more sense because it more directly correlates with the amount of "trouble" they start (on Prime, at least). It would be great if we had a way of doing a sort of auto-defend on friends when we need to help them out. Many people are afraid of bullying others and don't wish to declare anyone, but they forget that they can often times defend another who is being attacked and avoid the bullying that way. (This could also be considered a loophole since I think the attacker's friends could defend him in a similar way.)
I'd like to gain karma from killing people in enemy territory when I'm the one defending my territory, too. The times I've killed enemies in my home territory, I've lost karma just because I killed someone, which always confused me. Enemies who raid ought to lose a little karma and natives who defend ought to gain a little.
This has nothing to do with innocence or justification. It is intended to encourage two things:
1) Less group ganking without disadvantages for doing so, and
2) More stratified combat in which it is more profitable (though not necessary) to fight those who have a similar level of hardcoded advantages.
I despise the current Avenger system, in which EVERY SINGLE KILL you do, you are accused of bullying someone, and if you touch them again in the next MONTH, you die a horrible death. That is absolutely ridiculous. These changes are intended to allow at least the opportunity to integrate PK into the real world without instantly denouncing you as a griefer for doing so, while still preventing excessive targeting. Experience loss from praying is no longer bugged, and let's not forget that a great majority of players cannot conglutinate on the planes - where someone can target you repeatedly and endlessly, and not be called a bully.
Karma gain at the moment is ridiculous, I don't think I've ever heard of any curse actually being held for longer than a few minutes (except when it was wanted), and the blessings are INSANE.
Unknown2006-09-21 02:14:21
I knew that innocent was a poor word, but I couldn't really think of a better one. Basically, you can't determine who is strong or weak based on their might or their level. It's comparing apples to oranges.
Combat shouldn't be more stratified. There should just be more difficulty in pulling off 2+ person killer combos. I understand that people work on the tactics and create strategies that will work well against teams, but it's not a good thing when they're setting up triggers to pull off something by chaining their attacks or firing everything simultaneously. It should be about -slightly- more general strategies, like "You go for his legs, and I'll try to move him out of the room." or "Target the mages first and then go for the druids."
The Avenger only works in a few areas in all the game, so it's really not true that every single kill makes you a bully. It's designed to give us a tiny semblance of protection from the griefers, which is probably the real danger. Our false sense of security can make us even angrier when we -do- die to someone on the Prime Material Plane. We blame the system for not protecting us enough or complain that others are circumventing the system through whatever means.
Personally, I don't mind the dying so much as the attitude with which the killing is done. People will say they're roleplaying a psychotic serial killer or that they are on a holy crusade for justice or that you insulted them deeply when you walked past and didn't stop to say hello. Some might say that the world needs jerks, too, but I just don't agree. Of course, the definition of who's the jerk all depends on your perspective, I will admit.
Combat shouldn't be more stratified. There should just be more difficulty in pulling off 2+ person killer combos. I understand that people work on the tactics and create strategies that will work well against teams, but it's not a good thing when they're setting up triggers to pull off something by chaining their attacks or firing everything simultaneously. It should be about -slightly- more general strategies, like "You go for his legs, and I'll try to move him out of the room." or "Target the mages first and then go for the druids."
The Avenger only works in a few areas in all the game, so it's really not true that every single kill makes you a bully. It's designed to give us a tiny semblance of protection from the griefers, which is probably the real danger. Our false sense of security can make us even angrier when we -do- die to someone on the Prime Material Plane. We blame the system for not protecting us enough or complain that others are circumventing the system through whatever means.
Personally, I don't mind the dying so much as the attitude with which the killing is done. People will say they're roleplaying a psychotic serial killer or that they are on a holy crusade for justice or that you insulted them deeply when you walked past and didn't stop to say hello. Some might say that the world needs jerks, too, but I just don't agree. Of course, the definition of who's the jerk all depends on your perspective, I will admit.
