Unknown2006-09-20 18:28:46
Keep in mind when posting your thoughts and voting that Karma was implemented instead of Primebond because the playerbase thought it would be better... Well, after a year and a half, Karma hasn't done much to curb PK at all (IMHO), and theres griefer threads all over the place in Idiots, players aren't playing, Lusternia isn't growing, yadda yadda, so here we go with a new poll.
This is an idea we threw around a few weeks back as a possible solution to help curb excessive PK. We tabled this idea, but are now re-considering it in light of continued perception that Lusternia has too much PK. However, before we make any final decisions, we'd like your input on the merits of the idea, which is as follows:
PrimeBond
Power Cost: 2 (any)
By willing the PrimeBond to surround you, you will be protected from aggressive acts against you while on the prime material plane. Conversely, while this bond is up, you won’t be able to perform aggressive acts against others. You may remove this bond at will, but it will take some time before it falls (1 minute). Furthermore, if anyone attempts to harm you, the bond will become weakened and eventually fail (1 minute).
This would be the first skill gained in Planar. Basically, if you choose to raise the bond, it would protect you from being jumped and attacked on the prime plane. If you are jumped, you have one minute to decide to either retreat or to do battle. The downside is if you want to attack someone, you'd have to release the bond which would take about a minute to fall before you can attack. The choice would be yours to either have the bond active or not.
The purpose of this would be to make life in Lusternia on the prime plane a little less stressful without being too restrictive for those who are aggressive.
So let us know your opinions and thoughts!
QUOTE(Estarra @ Feb 1 2005, 06:02 PM) 40447
This is an idea we threw around a few weeks back as a possible solution to help curb excessive PK. We tabled this idea, but are now re-considering it in light of continued perception that Lusternia has too much PK. However, before we make any final decisions, we'd like your input on the merits of the idea, which is as follows:
PrimeBond
Power Cost: 2 (any)
By willing the PrimeBond to surround you, you will be protected from aggressive acts against you while on the prime material plane. Conversely, while this bond is up, you won’t be able to perform aggressive acts against others. You may remove this bond at will, but it will take some time before it falls (1 minute). Furthermore, if anyone attempts to harm you, the bond will become weakened and eventually fail (1 minute).
This would be the first skill gained in Planar. Basically, if you choose to raise the bond, it would protect you from being jumped and attacked on the prime plane. If you are jumped, you have one minute to decide to either retreat or to do battle. The downside is if you want to attack someone, you'd have to release the bond which would take about a minute to fall before you can attack. The choice would be yours to either have the bond active or not.
The purpose of this would be to make life in Lusternia on the prime plane a little less stressful without being too restrictive for those who are aggressive.
So let us know your opinions and thoughts!
Sylphas2006-09-20 18:39:11
PK flags blow, and this is nothing but a glorified pk flag on prime. I think the only way we'll curb PK without a retarded system is for the players to agree to a code of conduct voluntarily. Otherwise we'll eventually end up with rules lawyer hell like Achaea, or a simple PK flag.
Unknown2006-09-20 18:40:40
Ooooooh...
Just make it that you can't kill things like Ladantine or creatures loyal to a commune/city...
Great idea for the bashers. No more fear of Celest jumping me or trying to summon me
And Sylphas. Griefers are griefers. They don't follow no code of conduct.
Just make it that you can't kill things like Ladantine or creatures loyal to a commune/city...
Great idea for the bashers. No more fear of Celest jumping me or trying to summon me
And Sylphas. Griefers are griefers. They don't follow no code of conduct.
Unknown2006-09-20 18:43:53
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Sep 20 2006, 02:39 PM) 333679
PK flags blow, and this is nothing but a glorified pk flag on prime.
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Sep 20 2006, 02:39 PM) 333679
I think the only way we'll curb PK without a retarded system is for the players to agree to a code of conduct voluntarily.
Hrm, what if the Prime bond was only available to those jumped X number of times in the past Y number of days? That would make it more about curbing excessive hunting of a person by an army, rather then making half the mud completely hands-off.
Sylphas2006-09-20 18:45:44
QUOTE(Corinthian @ Sep 20 2006, 02:40 PM) 333681
Great idea for the bashers. No more fear of Celest jumping me or trying to summon me
Sure, let's ignore the consequences of being at war. In fact, let's just all be friends. In the end, PK either matters, or it doesn't. If we keep organizational conflict, people are always going to be forced to participate at some level. In my opinion, that's just part of the game. If you change it, you change the core of Lusternia and it's not the game I've been playing for two years.
Getting jumped while you're bashing is not griefing. I'm a well-known Seren. If I'm out bashing Gorgogs, I keep an eye on scent and scan in case people come after me. I don't really fight anymore, but I'm not going to call grief if I get killed. It happens, we're at war.
Daganev2006-09-20 18:46:21
This is not actually a PK flag.
Once you are attacked, you are have to either run away(normally a reason for attacking people is to get rid of them from your area) or stay and fight/get killed.
Its a glorified Timeslip is what it is.
However, I would dissagree with the idea that Rampant PK is at the same level as it was when Karma was introduced. It is clearly much better.
Once you are attacked, you are have to either run away(normally a reason for attacking people is to get rid of them from your area) or stay and fight/get killed.
Its a glorified Timeslip is what it is.
However, I would dissagree with the idea that Rampant PK is at the same level as it was when Karma was introduced. It is clearly much better.
Unknown2006-09-20 18:49:38
If it only works on Prime plane, and all the other planes have the go-ahead to PK as much as they want, all it does is make Prime plane what it was supposed to be to begin with - Safe.
If you attack a loyal on any other plane, people will still jump to defend, and there will be PK. People who hunt on other planes like Earth, Water and Astral, will be suspect to PK, because Primebond won't work on other planes. So it's not like it puts a complete halt on PK.
If you attack a loyal on any other plane, people will still jump to defend, and there will be PK. People who hunt on other planes like Earth, Water and Astral, will be suspect to PK, because Primebond won't work on other planes. So it's not like it puts a complete halt on PK.
Unknown2006-09-20 18:53:47
I don't think this really cancels out PK. The person has a minute to run.. so.. they're still forced to stop bashing or questing or whatever else they were doing when you weakened their bond.
That still allows you to get the same basic effect as a Player kill in terms of being territorial.
That still allows you to get the same basic effect as a Player kill in terms of being territorial.
Sylphas2006-09-20 18:57:45
Why don't we just take the next step, and make people unable to attack anyone in neutral territory? It turns Prime into the giant safe-room people apparently want it to be, and does it much more simply.
Basically, I loathe the idea that Prime should be safe and snuggly for everyone, unless the outer Planes are vastly expanded and made the focus of the game. Prime is, by far, the main area of the world. The other planes should not feel like they're just glorified arenas for PK.
Basically, I loathe the idea that Prime should be safe and snuggly for everyone, unless the outer Planes are vastly expanded and made the focus of the game. Prime is, by far, the main area of the world. The other planes should not feel like they're just glorified arenas for PK.
Unknown2006-09-20 18:58:18
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Sep 20 2006, 01:45 PM) 333683
Sure, let's ignore the consequences of being at war. In fact, let's just all be friends. In the end, PK either matters, or it doesn't. If we keep organizational conflict, people are always going to be forced to participate at some level. In my opinion, that's just part of the game. If you change it, you change the core of Lusternia and it's not the game I've been playing for two years.
Getting jumped while you're bashing is not griefing. I'm a well-known Seren. If I'm out bashing Gorgogs, I keep an eye on scent and scan in case people come after me. I don't really fight anymore, but I'm not going to call grief if I get killed. It happens, we're at war.
this is something from my system
You have slain
Wait till it regains balance/eq
Scent
I have F2 do Snort Spores. 'Who' is in my keypad as well as Scent
It's not that I would like to be friends and that crap, hell, I have PK Careful OFF just because I don't believe in the Avenger system. I don't care if I die, but it would be good to get a chance to escape conflict when you don't want to. And by escape, I mean run like hell before the protections times out!
Daganev2006-09-20 19:03:49
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Sep 20 2006, 11:57 AM) 333688
Why don't we just take the next step, and make people unable to attack anyone in neutral territory? It turns Prime into the giant safe-room people apparently want it to be, and does it much more simply.
Basically, I loathe the idea that Prime should be safe and snuggly for everyone, unless the outer Planes are vastly expanded and made the focus of the game. Prime is, by far, the main area of the world. The other planes should not feel like they're just glorified arenas for PK.
Because nobody wants that idea? Thats not the idea being proposed? Stop putting up strawmen.
I could just as equally say, why don't we take karma to the next step and halve all the blessings and double all the curses so everyone can maintain all the blessing and be that much better at PK, and have it cost more to curse people.
Sylphas2006-09-20 19:08:23
Bleh, I hate sounding so hostile. It just that, in my opinion, this is a game of conflict. The only way to opt out of the conflict should be to not play the game. Yet it seems that we keep drifting farther and farther away from that, and the core of the game is shifting away from what it was.
If we implemented Primebond, would we also completely scrap the Avenger system and Karma? If anyone who is attacked has a minute to run away (you're invincible if you have Teleport and/or know how to walk), there is absolutely no reason anyone should ever need karma curses or vengeance ever again. If you die, you're either afk, a total newb (killing either of which is frowned upon), or you want to fight.
If we implemented Primebond, would we also completely scrap the Avenger system and Karma? If anyone who is attacked has a minute to run away (you're invincible if you have Teleport and/or know how to walk), there is absolutely no reason anyone should ever need karma curses or vengeance ever again. If you die, you're either afk, a total newb (killing either of which is frowned upon), or you want to fight.
Shamarah2006-09-20 19:09:32
No. Primebond was a horrible, horrible, horrible idea and has absolutely no place in the conflict-driven environment of Lusternia.
Sylphas2006-09-20 19:13:19
Daganev, this was suggested to curb pk. Yet more and more ideas are being given that turn Prime into mutual-consent pk only. With Primebond, you cannot be pked unless you choose to be, or are too inept at playing the game to actually be out bashing anyway. The trend is clearly towards less and less PK on Prime, to the point where it's not much of a stretch to consider banning it entirely. It's not a strawman so much as a prediction of future trends. I'm not all that much against Primebond as a skill, but am very much against the trend behind its suggestion.
Diamondais2006-09-20 19:14:57
I like the Karma system..mostly just the blessings though, never actually cursed anyone. 
Nor gotten vengence. Except for like 3 deaths, I was fully deserving to be killed.
Nor gotten vengence. Except for like 3 deaths, I was fully deserving to be killed.Narses2006-09-20 19:34:08
I personaly feel that even in a world that revolves around conflict, people should have the ability to choose not to take part in it- and not suffer because of it.
Sylphas2006-09-20 19:44:07
QUOTE(Narses @ Sep 20 2006, 03:34 PM) 333703
I personaly feel that even in a world that revolves around conflict, people should have the ability to choose not to take part in it- and not suffer because of it.
You already can. You're almost perfectly safe if you stay in your city/commune and craft and such.
And I have to ask again, why would you play a game that revolves around conflict, if you don't want to be a part of it? I love the Jester class in Achaea, and I still have a huge fondness for the Sentinels guild. But the world went to hell, so I left. You don't see me over there pushing for everything to change because I don't like most of it. I like a lot of Imperian, but I'm not over there pushing for it to change so the rest of it suits me.
Unknown2006-09-20 19:45:16
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Sep 20 2006, 02:08 PM) 333693
If we implemented Primebond, would also completely scrap the Avenger system and Karma? If anyone who is attacked has a minute to run away (you're invincible if you have Teleport and/or know how to walk), there is absolutely no reason anyone should ever need karma curses or vengeance ever again. If you die, you're either afk, a total newb (killing either of which is frowned upon), or you want to fight.
I like this...
Unknown2006-09-20 19:58:58
I wouldn't see much point in Karma or the Avenger system if Primebond was implemented, there really wouldn't be a need for them, anymore.
Anarias2006-09-20 20:04:26
I don't recall what I said, if anything, when karma vs. primebond was originally being discussed but I like the primebond idea a lot more than I like karma now.
Primebond is not a pk flag system, its not going to turn prime into a place where everyone snuggles and is friends, it wont kill conflict and it isn't against the spirit of the game. Daganev was right, its a glorified timeslip. It is a shield for sixty seconds. That's it. Its not the elaborate buff system that karma is now. Karma is more alien to the spirit of Lusternia than primebond.
In short, kill karma and put in primebond.
Primebond is not a pk flag system, its not going to turn prime into a place where everyone snuggles and is friends, it wont kill conflict and it isn't against the spirit of the game. Daganev was right, its a glorified timeslip. It is a shield for sixty seconds. That's it. Its not the elaborate buff system that karma is now. Karma is more alien to the spirit of Lusternia than primebond.
In short, kill karma and put in primebond.
