Well, I thought I might raise this point again, since I can't find my last mention of it.

I don't think humans need the level two experience gain bonus anymore. Not only is it bad policy to allow certain races to put less effort in to achieve in the game (which I believe is why all other experience bonuses/penalties were removed where they used to exist), but with the power of evolution humans are no longer disadvantaged enough to need such a huge boost.

For the levels 90-100, human is almost essential to achieving tangible gain at a competitive rate, yet it was always my understanding that the experience bonus was to offset the race being pretty crappy and average in all statistics. They are far, far from it now. Evolution means that human is a viable choice in every guild, not always the best, but certainly more valid an option than most others. If evolution ONLY occurred if you were human all the way through, things might be different, but as it is the higher levels make the human race extremely advantageous for every single archetype.

My suggestion is not to remove the bonus from human characters (they don't need to be punished), but instead, set the base experience gain at what is now level 2, and apply that to all characters. Humans will lose nothing, but the other races will not be penalized for choosing not to arti-switch into human at the higher levels. All experience gain, which is the underpinning measure of achievement in IRE games, should be equally achievable for every character.

If humans need some sort of token advantage, there are many combat relevant bonuses that could be applied without unbalancing the field of opportunity - examples include allowing humans to have the equivalent of a god's favour in accessing common only skills above what they really know (quick learners), or increased power regeneration, or whatever.

But please, level the playing field across all races.

Just asking a really quick question before I further comment..but wasnt it when we started everyone had a experience disadvantage but the Humans? I remember this being so in the other IRE games and its been a really long time for me to remember it.

No, some races had experience penalties, humans had a level 3 experience bonus, and I suspect some races had small experience bonuses too. Most had neither.

I could be completely wrong, but Tae'dae is sticking out as a race that might have had a bonus/penalty, and Dracnari too.


Edit: As an alternative to setting all races at experience gain equal to the current level 2 rate, the experience bonus of humans could be scaled so that with every ten levels, it decreases by 25% of one level. So, by level 80, they no longer have any bonus since they have high evolution.

I think you can find the old race changes here.

terrible idea

Was partly right at least. Eh..as long as we dont lose the extra boost, with the crappy Int, Charisma and Strength its hard to level in the lower levels if youre unable to get the ultimate weapon of your archetype right away, or a good amount of Influence and nice enough weapons.

Er, I think it's probably a good thing that got removed...

Eep, that's scary!

Heh, you would have to wait until the day I go human to mention this. I agree though, but don't give an xp bonus to everyone, just bring humans down to where everyone else is.

Thanks! I was just going to go hunting for that.

Edit:Esentially most races had a penalty, humans had a bonus, when those penalties were taken away it was a defacto nerf to humans, and they got evolution. I think Evolution's put them on par with every other race other then the balance/eq bonus ones. When you add in the xp bonus they've kept, they become one of the best race choice for any/all classes.


My suggestion would be to let them keep their XP bonus untill they got to the point where they really shouldn't have it anymore, because evolution has kicked in enough to even them out with everyone else.

lvl 80? 85? 90? maybe? I really couldn't say, how does that sound though? I think it addresses Diamondias's point about them being weaker at lower levels I think, and Elryn's about them being way to strong later on. Evolution stops at 95 doesn’t it, so they are at that point pretty awesome in any class and shouldn’t still have that experience bonus.

The trend I’ve been seeing is people getting up to a high level and specifically switching over to human for no reason other then the experience bonus to help them get to titan/demigod, I think this change would address that as well their experience bonus should reduce as evolution becomes strong enough to even them out with other classes.

Tae'dae used to have a level 3 experience penalty - they were the only ones, closest were Dracnari and Viscanti at level 2, I believe. Also, back then, slower balance recovery had a bit more of an effect than it does now.

Lvl. 3 slower balance + Lvl. 3 slower experience = SOOOOOOOOOOOOO BAD.

Took me months to reach 25 on Guido.

I do not like this idea... reasoning to come later when I have time...

Yes but those were hold over disadvantages from Closed Beta where they were so butch that you couldn't kill a Tae'Dae, even if your life depended on it (which it wouldn't since the Tae'Dae was so slow you could outsip his damage)

This idea is no damn bueno, They just nerfed humans last envoy or so, and now you want them nerfed again? I could agree to it if you would boost balance recovery to aslaran or fae levels. But like that isnt going to happen. Look at all the other races, they have alot of advantages, just not exp. We have a nerfed evolution that now makes us prettier rather than tankier, and an exp bonus.

You should really make this thread focused more on how to make Viscanti's a decent class. They suck. But take for extremes, Elfen Lord or Merian Lord in Demi God form.... I think they end up better off.

Stop trying to kill off the humans, you racist

There was an envoy attempt to downgrade humans that was rejected on the basis that since most humans won't reach high-end levels, most humans won't have the advantages of evolution hence all humans get an experience bonus. Call it for what you will, but this was the explanation given to us.

...wow. I didn't notice when I played in November 2004 (I started Gandal November 2005 after a 1-year break), but these exp penalty things seem brutal...I think the only issue I have with humans is that they're pretty weak when they start and lvl 50 is oh so far away (though I got there in a day for my influencing alt Keldor ). But I can see how they're really good after that. I say keep it.

hmm, remove the xp bonus at level 80, just as they gain evolution at level 50.

this will prevent me from having to decide between hunting as a krokani and hunting as a human.

Well, first off... this isn't a downgrade of humans. I want to upgrade all other races to be equal in experience gain, so that the game is fair to all characters.

Second... that reasoning for rejection is bizarre to me. Almost every high-level person I can think of is either human or a changeling that relies on imitating human most of the time. There are almost no titans, but that doesn't stop them from being balanced just the same.

giving everyone a +2 experience gain is just silly... really weakens the harmony blessing and autumn.

They would add on top of it. It would just be adjusting the baseline of all races to achieve in Lusternia equally. And humans would then lose nothing.