Necromancy

by Malarious

Back to Combat Guide.

Malarious2006-10-08 10:04:21
Ok simple question with many answers... How can necromancy be changed to make it more comparable to sacraments? Looking for answers and possible methods. *Prays divine read*
Unknown2006-10-08 10:24:11
And what makes you think Necromancy is sub-par to Sacraments?
Malarious2006-10-08 11:44:16
Compare?

Necromancy:
-Disfigure cured with love (cool.gif
-crucify writhed easily (E) © if oyu can work it
-Lichdom ahh gotta love that (AAAAAA) wub.gif
-Contagion passive ailments on all enemies good one (A)
-Omen also nice (A)
-ectoplasm knight holder (B+)
-ghost ...I can run from people ©
- raisedead.. ooo another bashable... (F)
-Putrefaction... health drain for upped def...
-And a better one... Leech for mana

Sacraments:
-Heretic (A)
-Infidel (A)
-Inquisition (A) and lets not forget this pre trans skill REMOVES lich as a defense
-judgement (B+)
- Honour.. small regen.. no real rating
-Numen the guard slayer.. (cool.gif
-Sacrifice (A)... and tad overpowered as most would say
- Ressurect excelltnt on other sac users.
-Trueheal..oh boy... well.. 1) if used only cetain skills can hit through it if you arent a psionics user, super cure your health and all, plus equil and balance back. So you are now set up to run like Nil or win your fight.


I may be partial but I do recall hearing Celest has better Versions in all their skills... even their mages.. staff that makes health mana and ego go past max anyone?

But go head comment and correct me... I like information.. also point out what I dont see if you will.
Unknown2006-10-08 11:50:07
Putrefaction is great. Very good defense, in par with Numen.
Crucify isn't as bad as you say. It gives stunning, and only the best fighters can writhe off it immediately. Especially if they were bound before.
Contagion is NOT as good as you say. More enemies = less hits. And its afflictions aren't too great.
Ghost is very good if you need to run. You won't win but you are BOUND to survive.

Heretic/Infidel/Inquisition are neutralised by running away. And they're very costly in power. They're very strong, but not too strong.
Sacrifice and Ressurection are the non-selfish equivalents of Lich and Ghost. They don't really have any combat use.


My comment? Grass is always greener on the other side.

EDIT: Adding why they're not so great or great.
Unknown2006-10-08 12:04:14
QUOTE(Malarious @ Oct 8 2006, 07:44 AM) 340288

I may be partial but I do recall hearing Celest has better Versions in all their skills... even their mages.. staff that makes health mana and ego go past max anyone?
The Aquamancer new ability heals 20% health 20% mana and 20% ego, it always heals 20%, so if they are at 99% in each, they'll go up to 119% in each. Stag totem works the same way, for it's health sip at least, I've always thought about it as a bug myself. Just one that the users didn't point out because it helped them (marginally at least) rather then harmed them.
Geb2006-10-09 04:33:40
QUOTE(Wesmin @ Oct 8 2006, 01:04 PM) 340296

The Aquamancer new ability heals 20% health 20% mana and 20% ego, it always heals 20%, so if they are at 99% in each, they'll go up to 119% in each. Stag totem works the same way, for it's health sip at least, I've always thought about it as a bug myself. Just one that the users didn't point out because it helped them (marginally at least) rather then harmed them.


That is old. Aquamancers have had that skill since open beta.
Nico2006-10-09 17:23:23
A few comments, concerning the Celestian skills.

Heretic - 5-6 afflictions, spam. It's decent to help load someone with afflictions and slow curing, but it's not amazing.
Infidel - Either 400 damage to health OR mana, twice. So, in my opinion, absolutely worthless. Only used to set up inquisition.
Inquisition - Yes, very good. Also almost impossible to pull off as a paladin.

Judgment is just a delayed insta-kill, simple to avoid 1v1. Don't balance by group combat.

You forgot Dazzle, which is very good for paladins. Envenom with niricol to keep sixth sense stripped, and then dazzle away. 4 second writhe time.

Like cuber said, you highly underrate crucify, and also underrate ectoplasm.

And personally, if I ever trueheal, it's really only to get the censor.gif outta there. Also, realize that it takes 10p, meaning that unless you sit there and not use -any- power skills, you won't have it available at the critical time.

If I remember correctly, ghost has no power cost, right?

Personally, I only use numen, heretic, dazzle, rarely (if ever) judgment, and trueheal in combat. I honestly don't see where people are saying all our stuff is OP.
Unknown2006-10-09 17:55:10
Ghost costs 3 power.

And crucify is NOT underrated, it's just that bad. You can writhe off the cross at least two seconds before your enemy regains equilibrium (did test this), it costs seven power, does negligible damage, rare bleeding, and might break a bone. If you're lucky.

And as a side note, stripping Lichdom is just ridiculous. It's supposed to be the culmination of Necromancy and it's half the reason for using the skillset.

-Nigredo
Ashteru2006-10-09 19:07:40
I don't want to comment on the rest of the thread, but yes, ghost is 3 power, and being a ghost basically just means you can only get hit by kether/violet and can't get scryed for a while. You'll keep all afflictions you had before ghosting, with them fully working (broken chest draining endurance, broken legs making you move slower, etc.) Also, you can't move through water while ghosted, or if you ghost in water, you can't move at all. Same for pits.
Shamarah2006-10-09 19:13:13
QUOTE(Nigredo @ Oct 9 2006, 01:55 PM) 340814

And crucify is NOT underrated, it's just that bad. You can writhe off the cross at least two seconds before your enemy regains equilibrium (did test this), it costs seven power, does negligible damage, rare bleeding, and might break a bone. If you're lucky.


Well, sure, if you're stupid enough to just crucify with no setup whatsoever. That'd be like me saying that inquisition is impossible because my opponent runs if I do nothing other than heretic and infidel. doh.gif
Narsrim2006-10-09 19:26:01
I find the people who complain about Necromancy the most tend to be people who are mediocre combatants looking for an excuse as to why they are not as good as others.

Necromancy has some awesome abilities:

Ectoplasm, for example, is one of the best group fighting abilities in Lusternia. It rocks and utterly destroys warriors.

Crucify is also an awesome skill. To effectively kill with it does require -some- setup but as former Nihilists like Thorgal and Eiru have proven, it isn't difficult. Ectoplasm, Scabies, Epilepsy, etc. make it very difficult to writhe off period (in fact with Ectoplasm, Scabies, and Epilepsy it is possible to NOT BE ABLE to writhe off from 15-20 seconds).

Ghost is the best invasion ability in Lusternia and doubles as an excellent means to escape.

Lichdom is useful. If it wasn't (as many like to imply) people wouldn't kill themselves to re-lich immediately after using it.

Leech is better than Amissio for Nihilists.

Omen is useful to both Nihilists and Ur'guard.

Contagion is nice for relatively low power.

Putrefaction is absurd. It offers a -45%- reduction to blunt/cutting damage. 45%! That's more than any other physical damage resistance in Lusternia. While it does come with a health drain, the racial race for Nihilists have regeneration in taint - which covers this easily.
Kaervas2006-10-09 19:32:07
I quite enjoyed being a Nihilist when I got into it again about a week or so before going Blacktalon. Being able to stack web, shackles and crucify was very nice, though admittedly it didn't work on everyone there are some nice tactics available.
Unknown2006-10-09 19:47:05
Not this old arguement, make it stop, MY EYES
Ashteru2006-10-09 20:21:41
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Oct 9 2006, 07:26 PM) 340842

I find the people who complain about Necromancy the most tend to be people who are mediocre combatants looking for an excuse as to why they are not as good as others.

Necromancy has some awesome abilities:

Ectoplasm, for example, is one of the best group fighting abilities in Lusternia. It rocks and utterly destroys warriors. addendum: Who can't cleanse.

Crucify is also an awesome skill. To effectively kill with it does require -some- setup but as former Nihilists like Thorgal and Eiru have proven, it isn't difficult. Ectoplasm, Scabies, Epilepsy, etc. make it very difficult to writhe off period (in fact with Ectoplasm, Scabies, and Epilepsy it is possible to NOT BE ABLE to writhe off from 15-20 seconds). Yes, it's not bad. But all setting up requires our opponent to not do anything while we afflict him, use ectoplasm, he doesn't cure, etc. blahblah.

Ghost is the best invasion ability in Lusternia and doubles as an excellent means to escape. If you aren't in an Aquademesne, in barrier, afflicted in any way, and have 3 power left over.

Lichdom is useful. If it wasn't (as many like to imply) people wouldn't kill themselves to re-lich immediately after using it.

Leech is better than Amissio for Nihilists. Well, it does about the same and gives back a little mana. No complaints there.

Omen is useful to both Nihilists and Ur'guard. No, not in one on one combat, at least not for Nihilists.

Contagion is nice for relatively low power. True, but the afflictions aren't much to be wary about.

Putrefaction is absurd. It offers a -45%- reduction to blunt/cutting damage. 45%! That's more than any other physical damage resistance in Lusternia. While it does come with a health drain, the racial race for Nihilists have regeneration in taint - which covers this easily. However, the racial race for Nihilists sucks for everything else, too. PvP it's subpar, and even for bashing in tainted ground, it's not as good as other races.


Conclusion: Make a Nihilist alt and play him for a bit.


And I am gone from this thread again.
Unknown2006-10-09 20:23:07
QUOTE(geb @ Oct 9 2006, 12:33 AM) 340602

That is old. Aquamancers have had that skill since open beta.
Everyone was just talking about the change a week or so ago... blink.gif

My misstake, was about the change to another class any everyone promptly went into a "mines bigger then yours" flame which centered on the aquas... Kinda like this thread just replace nihilist with geo and celestian with aqua.
Shamarah2006-10-09 20:23:59
Thorgal managed to use omen + sensitivity + quicken cosmicfire to great effect.
Ashteru2006-10-09 20:40:00
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Oct 9 2006, 08:23 PM) 340878

Thorgal managed to use omen + sensitivity + quicken cosmicfire to great effect.

just it doesn't stack anymore, or am I wrong? O.o
Nico2006-10-09 20:41:01
Yes, warriors have cleanse. But cleanse takes 3-4 seconds to use, assuming that you got ecto'd while on arm balance. If off balance, you're pretty screwed.

And that 3-4 seconds can also sub as valuable curing time, should you need it.

Don't forget it's room-wide. In group fights, one person spamming ectoplasm is pretty damn annoying.
Gandal2006-10-09 20:44:12
QUOTE(Wesmin @ Oct 9 2006, 04:23 PM) 340877

Everyone was just talking about the change a week or so ago... blink.gif

My misstake

Okay, I might not be understanding, but I think the change about the staff you're talking about is the change for the Geomancer staff. Correct me if I'm totally misunderstanding.
Ashteru2006-10-09 20:47:03
QUOTE(Nico @ Oct 9 2006, 08:41 PM) 340881

Yes, warriors have cleanse. But cleanse takes 3-4 seconds to use, assuming that you got ecto'd while on arm balance. If off balance, you're pretty screwed.

And that 3-4 seconds can also sub as valuable curing time, should you need it.

Don't forget it's room-wide. In group fights, one person spamming ectoplasm is pretty damn annoying.

Well, inquisition is useful in groupcombat too, and the Nihilist takes 3-4 seconds to regain equi on ecto too. tongue.gif
Really, Nihilists are all about using the right powers at the right moments, and hoping your enemy doesn't prevent you from doing that.