At the moment sanctuary can be put up anytime during a village revolt as long as you first campaign for it at your nexus. I understand that sanctuary is good for those who like the influencing aspect of revolts more than the combat part but the issue I see is people camping out at breaking points to keep melds from being removed. This is a huge problem because then whoever holds the demesne first can just recruit a few smaller people who aren't the best influencers or fighters to just sit in a room to stop enemy demesnes from spreading very far. I didn't make this thread to flame any org for using this tactic. It's clever, but I just feel it's unfair that there is absolultey nothing you can do to get rid of sanctuary once it is put up.

Some suggestions:

1) Sanctuary have a time limit - just long enough for the person to influence/debate or whatever (maybe like 2 minutes?)
2) Sanctuary be removed when the person's ego is shattered. This would be equivalent to being killed in a crusade, perhaps then the person would be sucked back to their nexus to make it even and prevent them from being killed right after.
3) Sanctuary points act is if the melded room has already been broken to allow others a way to break the surrounding area

Feel free to post comments or other suggestions

Sanctuary should be removed when the person is shattered.

I find sanctuary horribly annoying. Change it or make twirl staff nonaggressive .

I disagree with the shattering to break sanctuary. There are people who cannot or refuse to fight and use sanctuary as a means to influence or debate safely. Shattering them will simply make them killable and thus be griefing in a way. I agree with a timer and allowing melding to be done in a sanctuary as long as effects cannot be present in it.

The other problem is peaced influence where terrain is still there and lends aid to the org that it is based off on, the other orgs cannot remove it and in certain cases like Flow, climb, boost to influence, those lend an overpoweringly advantage to debates and influence. There should be a way to clear all demesne within the village as soon as it enters a revolt.

I disagree with the first two.

However, the third one is necessary. You should be able to break demesnes in villages regardless of sanctuary or (maybe) peace.

I agree. I also feel that in a Sanctuary room, the ability to break a demesne should be possible. No other aggressive action allowed, but breaking the demesne. So, a person can't break and then meld. The person could only break. That would remove the ability to use Sanctuary as a means of protecting demesne break points.

I support that.

Sanc should not allow unbreakable melds nor protect a demesne, period.

I find debating/chanting laetitia/bard skills much more annoying when someone is shattered then sanctuary myself.

At the same time I agree with this:It's more about the unbreakable melds then it is about a few people hiding in sanctuary. Admittedly, if you've got the other side hiding in sanctuaries, they're already on their way to loosing the influencing.

I definitely think that some reworking of the campaigning system wouldn't hurt. Maybe putting a slow, constant power drain on the holder, or making the campaign time limited in some way.

As a bad fighter, I don't agree with the idea of the sanctuary dissolving on a shatter, unless the holder gets temporary grace like you get from coming out of the arena, or something to protect them from getting jumped.

A sidenote about the demesne breaking. All of the important rooms were sanctuaried to keep the demesne intact, so everyone in those rooms was safe from the demesne. So apart from some hindering of travelling from place to place, I'm not sure how much of an effect the unbreakable demesne had on the actual influencing. If people had wanted to actually influence rather than just kill people they could easily have done so.

Unless they have huge hordes of people with sanctuary + moonbeam, at which point hiding in sanctuary is the best thing for them to do. No way to lose!

You do know that people have to get to those rooms first before they can influence the denizens there? If a demesne is unbreakable, then the side with the demesne has the advantage of picking people off while they are trying to head to the safe influencing rooms. So it was only easily possible for the group who owned the demesne to influence, while everyone else had to try to slowly fight their way through the demesne effects to influence.

I do support the suggestion Geb has made to remedy the situation, but I would like to point out that no demesne is as hindering as tracker traps with protection scrolls up. It isn't plausible to go around dissolving everyone in the middle of an influence, and yes prot scrolls take a while to put up, but you can put them up in a sanc.

Fighting in a hostile demesne is a pain, but hostile demesnes don't make it that hard for a single person to run from one denizen to another, unless there are others making it hard.

Pit traps, however, only effect the enemies of the user, and delay movement significantly compared to a demesne hitting with a few minor effects, and there is not only no way to see where they are, but there is also no way to avoid them. I'll argue that a pit trap with Ixion standing on top of it will kill and hinder FAR more people than an unbreakable demesne in that room, and the passive effect is just as unbreakable as a demesne anchored in sancs, and is MORE hindering.

Aye, I'm not saying the demesne wasn't a problem, and I think that something should be done about it. I'm just saying that there were a lot of useful tactics that never got tried.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen Celestines have a tea party in a full Hartstone Demesne with shrine effects and liveforest on Ethereal and still be able to kill Seren defenders

I agree the unbreakable demesne in sanctuary is something that needs to change.

Personally, I'd like to see sanctuary/crusade as a time limited room effect that remained regardless of any action for a given time. Say, 5 minutes, with a warning message at 15 seconds when it is about to dissipate. And ego-shattered affliction makes it impossible to campaign (You are too ashamed to lead any campaign!). The reason is that at the moment the person who controls a sanctuary has quite significant power if they use it wisely. They decide the exact moment the room reverts back to hostile - and with patience and the help of allies that element of surprise can be pretty powerful.

I disagree that a pit is worse than an unbreakable demesne. Pits have one use, until the tracker conceals them. Pits do not hit entire groups; they only hit the first person walking in. Pits can be avoided by flying; many demesnes have abilities that can knock a person out of the sky. Pits also can be turned or removed by your allied trackers (Your side had one there too). Unbreakable demesnes are just that, unbreakable.

Also, I can argue that Ixion in a demesne allied to him is far more dangerous than him standing over a pit. The pit again is a one-time thing pretty much. Since a warrior can't target the lower portion of a person's body while in a pit, a warrior's only means of really keeping a person down there is using non-damage hindering attacks. If he can kill you before you climb out, he could have also killed you with Carcer if you tried to walk out and lost balance or tumbled out and was not a very small size.

Just to give you a heads up, pits are not a big deal on their own. Even snake pits are easy to get out of, if you are not being directly hindered. The real trap you should fear during group combat is the dart trap. A dart trap can hit an entire team of people, and like I said before the pit will only hit one person until re-concealed.

What I want to know is why does it take time to climb out of a pit and no time at all to climb down from the trees or land on the ground from the skies? Okay, so gravity is fighting against you when you're climbing out, but realism aside, wouldn't it be a little more balanced if you could climb out without the delay, barring any restraints?

Dart traps are very nasty, though. That's a lot of poison hitting a lot of people. Maybe the timer should be slowed down just a touch?

The way villages are set up...and how small demesnes can be...It's very possible for a demesne to have a lot of break points. Admittedly if you plan to only demesne a certain part of the area (last time Dairuchi rebelled, Mag immediatedly made a demesne in the silk caverns, then sanctuaried the top so it couldn't be broken) then yes, it can't be broken. But Shorlen was mentioning repeatedly that his demesne was being broken last night, so obviously, it was being done. Dylara even broke it once, accidentally, and I don't think she's a pro at doing that kind of thing. Since I was holding down Drochuro, I could see when his demesne effects were up, and they weren't up even 20% of the time. Shorlen was also getting killed A LOT, a good way to stop demesne effects.

It was important denizens that was being sanctuaried last night, not demesne break points. Why? Cause Serenwilde was fighting two military forces greater then their own at the time - Mag and Celest. Strategically speaking, having people hold down the bulk of the influenceables and rellying more on influencing then fighting would get them the village. People HAVE been moving freely in the demesnes, Athana often debated me out, and I saw Mags/Celests (not just powerhouses, some very very small) loiter in the stables to cure themselves, or rest.

If you could move someone away from a sanctuary spot, it would defeat the safety of sanctuary. That much should be obvious.

That being said, I agree with sanctuary and melds. Make sanctuary like a demesne, where you have to break the room before being able to sanctuary it.

Very nasty, I wasn't sure that was the way it was supposed to work. Although, the fact that if you leave the room and then re-enter it and get hit by a new dart trap, you've now got two timers going off against you seems to be a little wrong.

EDIT:


Problem there is that important denizens tend to be in one-exit rooms, which, if part of the demesne, are the break points.

Its not my fault it was so close to the Mag demesne in the north part of the village! I had a Geo demesne on me as I tried to break it. And it was spamming my screen so I couldnt see right away from terrain Id entered....

And back to writing scrolls before Saran takes his whip out.