In response to Saran's post on the Shears and Pyramide Update thread.

You're arguing for argument's sake. Taking a simple phrase and creating a debate over it. Get over yourself, you're more then a little irritating.

Though, even a 20% drain in comm costs would be nice. Some pieces of furniture require a minimum of 1000 comms to make, so it drains out the commodity market for likely at the very least a few months, drastically raises prices, and makes both consummers and producers a little stressed and unhappy. Just look at instruments and wood. Since it's a common item and will always be in need/demand, both price and availability of the commodities involved will rarely restabalize. It's been made clear that the cost of making instruments is done on purpose, and will not change. I know people have been raiding the Serenwilde's saplings/trees for lumber, mulching and skunking and what not.

This in turn affects pretty much anything else an Artisan can make. Almost everything else is made out of wood. And if not out of wood, then iron/steel, which affects Forgers. Or marble, which can only be justified for items with heavy bases, and lack of versability. Both Trades use a lot of comms.

Enabling an artifact to become this useful puts less stress and strain on the commodity market, lowering cost and increasing availability, ultimately becoming benefitial for not only those with the Trade skill, but for anyone interested in the comms and not selling off their organs to the Magnoran black market to afford them.

Increasing duration on items that already last at least 200-600 months is an insane suggestion. Thrones last at least an IRL year. Name anything else with that kind of duration, other then artifacts? I dare you. People are stingy. They aren't going to pay more for items that already cost a ton to produce, and I don't blame them.

Other ideas for upgrades?

If it you off so much that people might get a bonus out of it that you don't feel like getting (buying an artifact, the pantograph in particular), then I suggest instead that dismantling takes longer equilibrium recovery time, but returns half the comms used to make the item, at trans ability. People with a pantograph could return 75%-100% of comms, depending again on ability in Artisan. An Inept artisan would botch the dismantling job, getting nothing back but having destroyed the furniture in question, while a Trandescant Artisan, well versed by then in the use of their skills, can more efficiently dismantle the furniture.

Double portables production (pipes, boxes, baskets, tents, instruments) when used with a wielded pantograph.

Increase duration on OUTDOORS items (not indoors.) Outdoors furniture lasts around 50 months, so it could be reasonable that being able to build sturdier furniture would enhance the durability and ability to withstand the elements longer.

Pyramids makes me a sad Trans Artisan, maybe get rid of Prized, and replace it with something more related to Artisan.

Maybe have indoors furniture in a non-urban environement (ethereal/wyden, taint/ocean) decay at a quicker rate.

Anyway, more like a rant then a idea suggestions, but there they are >.>

We have a black market??


Screw duration on items,
1. furniture wise they make room stakes that make it so they never decay... Buy one.
2. Other things, like weapons, put them in a rack (they wont decay)... Buy one.
3. If you complaing about the rack decaying, read 1
4. Kegs etc?? You have a shop?? or a manse safe?? or a purse?? put it in that it will half the time... if not.. Buy one.

Yes we all dont have the money to afford alot of these things, but remember these things are trinkets in this game, if you want to keep it forever, rune it, stake it or store it in a shop. They made it so you could do those things, but they shouldnt make things last forever because some people dont want to buy something that isn't a necessity but a perk...

Anyways... kill all artisians they drive the wood price up

Edited- Because I can't spell quote

It is not that people are receiving a bonus from an artifact, I accept that people buy artifacts for such reasons. However if a 20% reduction to comm costs were added to the artifact this means that the wooden throne would cost an artisan 16800 gold less to construct the ones requiring 800 marble 22400(based off of serenwildes current prices) and that is simply their primary commodity without adding the prices for the others. I can't honestly think of another artifact that does something similar, the paintbrush could but it's used for tints and pallettes.


I hope the listing of instruments was a mistake...


Reasonable


Umn huh? the suggestions to upgrade Pyramids have also taken not devaluing prized into account. If it works the way it sounds I still receive a major benefit by having my prized posession in my ship, I can get to my ship from pretty much anywhere. A pyramid only works on the same or an adjacent plane.


Seems a bit unfair, orgs that keep their territories terrained would be disadvantaged unless this some how accounts for the natural terrain and all the indoor locations within the communes and cities are urban.

1) Stasis gem for 50 creds. If someone buys a throne or chandelier, I usually suggest they get a statis gem as well, since the furniture costs as much as the gem. Better then replacing, and works on all furniture.
2) Agreed.
3) Agreed.
4) Agreed.

Bolded section: Disagree. I know I haven't bought wood since two days after instruments came out. I bet there's a bunch of non-artisans buying out the wood and driving up prices.

*eyeshift*

Artisans already have a huge trouble making any decent profit because most artisans work for free... if the pantograph reduced commodity prices, artisans without it would quite simply never, ever sell anything or even make anything for anyone, or even make anything for themselves. The entire skillset would be crippled, hugely, even more so than any other skillset in existence.

Hey, what about this, instead of reducing use for a minority and making people useless unless they shell out 300 credits, you could make those commodities less scarce.

That would work fine. Although I don't want artisans walking into people's manses and destroying their furniture; the manse owner would have to give them permission.

I would love an increase to wood.

Also perhaps deconstructing done like this checks if the person is in the room, with them needing to do an unforced agree for safety? The comms would go directly into the owners inventory just like a key does

I was thinking more like the current destruction syntax would tag an object for destruction, and only then an artisan can destroy it.

That makes no sense. Logically, and mechanically. The "owner" has nothing to do with the deconstruction, or construction, of the furniture.

I seriously hope you aren't suggesting artisans can scavenge furniture to get comms without permission from the furniture's owner.

Of course not. Have it so furniture can only be deconstructed with permission from the owner. Maybe have it so they have to be an ally (like allyshop) and only then it could be deconstructed. Or, have it as a manse flag. MANSE SET DECONSTRUCT OFF/ON.

Except for the fact that at any given time there is only one person who can order the destruction of a piece of furniture right now.

Anything idea which potentially allows someone to go in without the direct permission of that one person(having someone on your allies list for this is bad because that can be forced) is going to be risky, someone could turn on you and deconstruct your entire manse, guild hall, etc running away with the comms.

Thus the other idea I suggested, MANSE SET DECONSTRUCTION ON/OFF. The owner would be in complete control of when furniture can be destroyed or not.

Someone forgets to set it off, a random artisan tries to deconstruct, they now have free comms

Someone forgets to set door perms on a Manse Shop, they're shop gets raided too. That's a lot more complicated, but I'm sure people still manage to look after it. What, do you think the average player's a complete idiot?

Shops do cost quite alot more than a manse, there are less than 200 in the third year since lusternia opened. Not all of those are going to hold a shop aswell. However most manses are going to contain some form of furniture, I have respect for others intelligence, however someone forgetting something small is a possibility that should be considered. However you are also completely ignoring the fact that not all furniture is in a manse are the communes, cities and guilds going to be prevented from recovering comms?

The suggestions made that affect manses don't take this into consideration

No, it takes into consideration the person who's doing the deconstruction. Since the Guild Admin does the deconstruction, they'd get the comms, and so on. That's simple logic man.

You are a silly Artisan. I will seriously, at some point in time, take Artisanry IF ONLY BECAUSE prize return is so godly. Stuck on an aetherbubble? Stuck anywhere? Dear god! You are being swarmed and you loaned out your cubix... prize return ftw.

WTF are you talking about, so an artisan artifact is used by a Guild Admin to regain comms. But the effectiveness of such a thing is based off their skill in Artisan.

You really need to clearly outline whats going on.

My suggestion would allow for this, the suggestion of a flag that is set on/off means this flag would have to exist for commune, city and guild locations aswell. Then what an artisan wanders up and just deconstructs everything which then flocks over to the appropriate person?

As it stands unless the artisan is the person with the deconstruct power over the location an artisan has NOTHING to do with the deconstruction of furniture.



Perhaps reverse the situation.

Deconstructiong Orders
An artisan can draw up deconstruction orders for a piece of furniture, if that furniture is ordered for deconstruction by someone wielding the orders it will return comms based off the artisans skill.

This means nothing changes in regards to who is able to deconstruct furniture. The 'owner' of the furniture would just hand the orders to the workmen and they would give the 'owner' the comms