From the general looks of it, Celest has been getting a majority of the games "BEST" abilities from every combat viewpoint. For example I pondered it for awhile and realized the following:

Celest Bards:
Abilities Worth Honorable Mention:
Blackout+Aeon Stanza
Permanent Uncurable Anorexia While In The Room
Atop of the ability to take Tarot? Not sure if i'm correct there. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Celest Guardians:
Abilities Worth Honorable Mention:
Passive Ent Vapors
A Triggered Anti-Command Ability That Becomes Passive After Activation (Inquisition)
Trueheal

Celest Mages:
Abilities Worth Honorable Mention:
A Triggered Anti-Command Ability That Becomes Passive After Activation (Bubble)
Passive Affliction/Health/Mana/Ego Healer
Couple The Previous Mention With The Fact That They Are All Merians And Can Feasibly
Have Level 3 Health/Mana Regeneration While In A Demesne

Celest Knights:
Abilities Worth Honorable Mention:
A Triggered Anti-Command Ability That Becomes Passive After Activation (Inquisition)
Trueheal


Comparison to other guilds? It wouldn't even really be worth my time, but no other guild gets passive vapors, the Nihilist GC pet gives passive blackout. That's a GC pet and you can't focus the blackout like
you would through a Celestial ArchAngel. I'm just venting this because the Celest bards, as the pattern always seems to turn up, got the best abilities of all three other archetypes. The easiest, and cheeziest to use. After delving into these thoughts I realized that Magnagoran fighters are far superior because they
have not a single easy and overpowered ability like the above that they can use, and still manage to come out on top a majority of the time depending on the numbers in a fight.

Discuss.

Bubble - Compare to Geomancer Stoneflesh.

Affliction Healer - Druids -definitely- have something comparable. Not sure about Geos.

We do -not- have a mana/ego healer. I'd know - I rely on forcefield while bashing.

We have level 3 regeneration while in a demesne?


"After delving into these thoughts I realized that Magnagoran fighters are far superior because they have not a single easy and overpowered ability like the above that they can use. "

You're kidding, right?

Flame/troll thread ftw!

Merian's have level 2 health/mana regen while in Water. Aquamancer demesnes count as water. You stack that with mercy etc enchantments? Yes, it's level 3.

Stoneflesh is never ever used by any of our combatants.

Show me a log of someone actually using it in a situation that benefitted them.

Then you can troll.

Forren, I dont mean to sound as if Im trying to contradict you..I honestly dont know much about Druidry and Stag, being at Sap and Pacing. What Druid ability thats a affliction healer?

Sacrifice I guess, however I still don't know what the Blacktalon one is exactly

One of the totems passively heals health and afflictions. Ialie used to use it when we hunted virgins.

Byakugan - I would suggest that you change your argument. Magnagora does not lack good abilities - according to you, most people seem to not be using them.

Magnagoran Abilities Worth Honorable Mention:

Putrefaction:
Still drains 500 health every few seconds aside of the huge damage reduction to BLUNT AND CUTTING.
That does not help worth a **** against a gaggle of Celestians.

Crucify:
Too easy to writhe off of, this has been pointed out in the past. You have to be a Murphy or be within a gaggle of Magnagorans to stick it.

Ghost:
It's just a espionage/escape ability. It harms no one by itself.

Nihilist Demon Pacts:
Waste of breathe, Torak and Murphy have both pointed out specifically that Anorexia/Shackles/Stupidity are
the ONLY investments worth using ever. 3 investments worth using out of the total of 20 we have.

Omen:
With the increasing amount of Murphy/Ciaran/Ethelon bots running around.. everyone either A. Shields repeatedly, or B. Skedaddles immediately.

Choke:
See Omen.

Sap:
See Tarot below.

We have Tarot for our guardians, wahoo. So many people have been subjected to that to the point where people can cure out of it quite easily.

Hexes? I almost want to cry in thought when I realize how hard it will be for me to use it effectively as a guardian in solo combat.



So this brings me back to my point? Why are the admins/coders of Lusternia throwing overpowered abilities to Celest all the time?

Omg I'll trade you vapors for your shackles. Deal?

And there's tons of Celestines abilites that aren't worth a flip. Empower? Totally and utterly worthless. Being a Celestine, you're gunna be doing more of a hinder role than slaying people left and right. That's what guardian is half about. Take your "lemons" and make some freaking lemonade.

Just a random note, we do use stoneflesh. However, I'd argue that while Stoneflesh is superior to bubble in teamfights, 1 on 1 bubble would be better since it moves people out of the room, so the mages doesn't have to leave. But that's up to each mage itself, I guess.
And no, Geomancers don't get any affliction healing skills. (Besides Heartstop. -Har, the humour)

Its simple... Celest started out iwth very UNDERpowered abiilites... Magnagora started with Overpowered ones. As they compensated through minor envoy reports, 2 years later, they switched a bit.

I think you are wrong there. A lot of the pacts have potential. Unfortunately, I never had time to try out a few combos I thought of, nor would they have worked on people like Geb, Daevos, etc. But for my combatlevel, they probably would've been nice. For example, paralysis/impatience/shackles, etc. *shrug* I like warriorcombat.

And you're the only guardian that has a insta-kill based off hinderment that can be used (probably with failure if you don't hinder firstly) without any requirements. Judge much? Out on edge, I don't think you'd sit on your *** and not judge someone while they are inquisitioned.


Ashteru - I asked Torak and Murphy both and they said specifically to stray away from that because it's too easy to get out of. Being users and abusers of Nihilist combat strategies, I think they know what they are talking about.

That seems reasonable, assuming Wrack (the Nihilist equivalent to Absolve) is altered so the target no longer has to be bound.

I don't think you can judge right after inquisition because of the power cost involved.

The typical pattern is rub soulless 7x times, inquisition, throw soulless, dead.

Given the typical situations with fighting in Lusternia, there will be more than just one Celestian about.

Wrack, you still have to have your target bound or it gives you a failure message. Unless they changed it within the last week.

I am not talking about the toplevel they were in. Sure, there are omnitrans people etc., etc., they have to take the best tactics. On the average level though, so about most of Lusternia, you can test out nice pacts and so on. It's not always about the toplevel. *shrug*

EDIT: I am not saying that all of Celests skills are cool. I have an issue with the unlimited time of trueheal, or Inquisition stripping transcendent-skill-deffs, or dazzle being actually damn useful, but eh. I hope one day envoys will balance all out.

You have to base it on toplevel, everyone uses pre-made systems already that are made to deal with petty locks like impatience/paraylsis. The ability to inquisition, bubble, heal so easily, trueheal and never be hurt so easily aside from the minimal amount of telepathy users, makes you a toplevel fighter. I can't be the only one who grasps this, can I?

However, if they don't have transcendent discipline, it can still keep them hindered for a while. As I said, I do agree that I wish some of Celests skills would get looked at. But, that's an envoys job, and, assuming that envoys are after balance and not after just making themselves better, then skills will be balanced one day.