Greetings again. Can't decide between the two mentioned. Please note, that the choices are fixed, so, for example, aslaran ur'guard will *not* do. Let aside the roleplaying reasons, I have strong feelings to both of the choices, and both suit my supposed RP just perfectly. So, concentrate on pure effectiveness. Here's my problem:

1. Human Ur'Guard.

Lured to this by the overall glamour of warrior class, and some nice additions like Lich never hurt. Low stats at low levels don't disappoint me at all - already level 82, and at 85 it will be STR 15, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 13, CHA 12, SIZE 12 - quite nice for a knight. But there are three main objectives.

a) Runes. I can afford transing some skills, but the weapon runes will remain beyond my reach for a long time.

b) Hunting. Also known as bashing :) Knights are great for surviving the runs, but the killing speed makes me somewhat anxious. But there's a human exp bonus, Autumn in low magic. Is that enough to compensate the misses and slow killing speed? Quick question: is +1 STR from High magic worth it?

c) Style :) I long to be a pureblade with katana. Quite good for bashing, but what about PvP combat? Will my katana-wielding human Ur'Guard work as a decent combatant? Reluctantly, as the last resort, I could go Blademaster. So, what about BM with rapiers hunting?

2. Mugwump Geomancer.

Telekinetic geomancer to be correct. Beauty blessing + Netzach + Throne + a few more things and I feel quite tanky with my Forcefield. Killing speed is perfect. Mugwump's shielding/reflecting speed is amazing. PvP abilities seem quite decent and diverse to me as well. The objections are:

a) If you die, you stay dead. No Lich of the Ur'Guard, let aside the overall tankiness.

b) None :)

Well, you've got my point. I'm interested in both PvM and PvP, I love the both choices for both RP and sheer strength equally, but can't decide. So, post your opinions, please. Any thoughts on which is better will be appreciated.

You're kidding me right?

Sure, at low level knight bashing sucks and is, compared to the other classes, slower. However, as soon as you start to have crits, you can (with the right equipment) outhunt high damage magic classes. Even as Aquamancer Melanchthon always beat me. His crit rate made every other hit with his speed rapiers a killing one. And he gets two hits per round not one like me. And on a side note, I do miss him.

EDIT: And I think BM and BC might be better for bashing than a PB.. but I'm no knight.

Humans do fantastic at high levels as any class. Weapon runes are nice but not a necessity by any means. Warrior bashing seems pretty good but I don't really know that much about that. PBs aren't bad; Geb does extremely well as a pureblade (although, to be fair, his katana has every possible rune on it). They'll be getting some upgrades soon in any case to hopefully put them on par with the one-handers.

Warrior PvP seems very interesting and diverse with a lot of tactics you can choose from. I've never been a warrior myself but I've seen many different styles you can choose from with each specialization.

If you're going for bashing with a forcefielded geo there are really better races you could pick than mugwump since mugwump charisma is pretty bad, but since you want mugwump you're definitely going to need a throne (which means you also have to buy a manse to put it in). Geos don't have any resurrecting abilities beyond vitae and immolate, which does suck.

Despite how it might look, mage PvP is really not diverse at all and is in fact really the most boring and linear archetype to PvP with. You basically just set up a demesne and spam stuff until they die. There aren't many things you can do with it and it's really not that much fun (which is why I quit the Aquamancers).

I miss having Melanchthon around as well.

I am a BC who used to be a PB. I do find that hunting speed is quicker as one, though I can't quantitatively state why. I have max-speed hammers, and I never had a max-speed katana. I can't really judge. Warriors are incredibly fast hunters at higher speeds though. I'm level 81 and things just drop. Criticals really come in handy once you get to the point where you can almost guarantee one on each target.

More hits means faster bashing in IRE games. This has been rather well established by many people. Thus, BC/BM are better at bashing than PB/AL. Also, the only stat that effects bashing is speed. You want as close to the max (280) speed weapons as you can get, and you want both weapons to be within one point of each other.

For PvP, you want weapons with both speed and percision. Speed effects how fast you deliver afflicts and how fast you deliver poisons. Percision effects how many deepwounds you hit with per swing. The reason pure speed isn't as good as having some speed and some precision is that when the game checks to see what deepwound afflictions you hit with, it checks how many deepwounds they have AFTER the hit, not before. Also, you will not always be able to hit every balance, since people will be entangling and paralyzing you, thus reducing the impact of the speed.

Mugwump Telekinetic Geomancer.


My reasons are entirely selfish. I'd like to see more people in the guild.

With regards no lich, I have conglut and I don't bash on prime. As in -never-. I did.. perhaps up to about level 75, but after that the risk of a praying death grew to great, and I could simply bash on Astral. Equally, I try very hard to stop Aiakon having to fight in any situation in which he is liable to have to pray... and it isn't too difficult, because all the most important inter-organisational conflict happens in conglut zones.

In other words: Lich is (I'm sure) -really- nice... but it's by no means essential.

You can put it in a friends or familys mansce which reminds me my throne may still exist yay.

Mages can be the fastest hunters, with and without crits.

You cant really lose with a Human either way.

Imperial Merian + knowledge blessing = kill a rockeater in two hits...awesome.

Mages don't miss, and I remember seeing Ixion doing WSC's and Daevos doing WSC's that did not kill the same type of mob that one WSC from Athana would do. Our crit is based off the damage of the weapon.

Now if you choose to go PB, you can always bash with rapiers if you like. I use a katana but Mel and some other PB's I have known use rapiers for bashing for more crit hits.

Doesn't he use a claymore? I saw enough claymore/greatsword warriors, but haven't seen any katana-wielders.


Even Psionics doesn't add some flavour? From the skilllists it seems Illusions and Telekinesis provide a few ways of fighting besides staff/staff/staff. Am I wrong?


A silly question: are Catacombs located on Prime?


By the way, what do you think of the human mages? Starting from level 85 it's STR 13, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 15, CHA 12, SIZE 12. Does it balances out the regular equilibrium or mugwumps still do better?

We started discussing PvM extensively, but let's consider PvP as well. Mages are frail and put at half potential outside the demesne. The warriors' whole arsenal is always with them, they have lots of health and armour and offence seems to be on par with the magi's one. Knights sound much better for me, but from what I see, there are many and many very strong mages, what means I'm just making wrong decisions. So, which of these two would be better for PvP combat?

Mage combat is never going to be objectively quantifiable. Personally, I like it.

Catacombs are on the Ethereal Plane

I am a human mage. It's not bad. Sometimes I think about going Mugwump.. but they're icky and covered in slime.

I play a Human Druid, I personally love it far more than I liked it playing a High Elfen all that time ago. I kill in the same amount as the silly Elfens with my cudgel and I have about 3.6k health normally at 78, and honestly, Im only a tad bit slower than an Elfen. It also never hurts that I can get access to a skill that boosts my Equilibrium.

Now Mugwumps, I have no experience with. Yet, I know they are fast. Faster than a Human, but I'd rather a normal speed with a good Constitution and semi-good Intelligence. Remember, with Staff you'll be hitting hard.

I play a mugwump telepath. I find it enjoyable. I've never ever switched classes before, though.. so my perception's skewed

Mostly there isn't a lot to do. If you're a telekinetic fights are going to go mostly one of these ways:

enemy/weave phantom/weave wounds/activate mantakaya dagger/staff/staff/staff/staff/staff...
enemy/weave phantom/weave wounds/burst-trip-choke/burst-trip-choke/burst-trip-choke... (eventually) heartburst
enemy/weave phantom/barrier/stonewalls/wait/chasm (the cheap way)

If you're a telepath it's going to look like this:

enemy/weave phantom/weave wounds/mindblast combo/mindblast combo/mindblast combo... (eventually) mindburst or they die to damage

If you're a dreamweaver it's going to look like one of these:

enemy/embed memoryloss/weave phantom/weave wounds/dreamweave deepsleep x5/staff/staff/staff/staff/staff...
enemy/embed memoryloss/weave phantom/puncture/dreamcast memoryloss/chasm

And if you're a runist it's going to look like this:

die (because runes sucks)

======

In more detail because I didn't really explain that much, basically a telekinetic kills by throwing daggers on the target and staffing over and over and over until they die, using burst/trip/choke or burst/trip/throatlock over and over and over until you can heartburst, or if you're a geo using barrier and stonewalls and then using chasm and hoping they don't have any escape skills or ways of stopping chasm.

This isn't to say that mage PVP is bad. It's not; it can still be interesting and mages are definitely quite powerful. It is, however, extremely monotonous in comparison to the other classes.

Then isn't it strike head/strike head/strike head/behead (eventually) for pureblade-warriors?

Nope, because the enemy will parry the head and you won't land a single hit.

I once believed that fighting as a warrior was the simplest and most monotonous from all the classes. But that was over 1.5 years ago and I was a Lusternian-brand noob back then. Fighting as a warrior is actually THE least monotonous in PvP, offers most options and things to do. Impromptu tactics when your usual ones fail are rewarded too.

Not at all. Warriors have tons and tons of different things they can do. They'll have more once the PB/AL changes go in (which should be in the next week or two).

Good luck on getting hack down to behead.


As a PB I don't even remember the last time I hit someone in the head, since they tend to parry it. I hit legs arms, chest and gut but normally leave the head be.... Behead is about as trustworthy as a knife in a gunfight.

But yes, warrrior PvP is tricky and difficult to actually master... like everyone said, there are so many options on limbs/attacks/venoms.... then throw in the secondary skill to add more.

Mage combat I consider more about perfecting illusions, and your secondary (that Shamarah pointed out)