This is an issue that as far as I know very few people have looked into, but I'd like to pose the notion that it's one of the issues of Lusternia's treatment of novices. As I see it, newbies in Lusternia have very few choices for participation in the game.

The problem as I see it:

Lusternia has many different game features and mechanics; crafting, designing, aetherships, influencing, villages, questing, bashing, combat, constructs, colossi, roleplay, politics, and more. Those features fall roughly in three categories:

Available at start, or purchaseable with game tokens players have at start
This includes bashing, questing, casino games and roleplay. Roleplay however is greatly enhanced by spending more time in the game and knowing more people in-game; for an entirely new character, it's not vastly enjoyable. It also relies heavily on having people online with you in the same guild and city.

Buyable with game tokens
Crafting, designing, aetherships, influencing and combat - The gross of Lusternia's features - fall here. Newbie players don't have access to any of those, not even limited access; barriers of entry are very high; while it is possible to "buy into" those features more or less cheaply, a vast investment of credits (Which translates into either real-life money or a lot, and I mean a lot of in-game time) is needed to be competitive.

Obtained through effort
Spending time in-game enhances roleplay, and it opens up politics (Which in turn opens up playing with constructs and colossi). It also leads to contributing to culture by writing in-game books.

Now, while this is the model of gameplay used by most IRE games (And in fact most MMOs) Lusternia has very few features a player can access when he is new. Gameplay for a total newbie consists of jumping through Newton's various hoops, which gets old fast. A lot of notions about the inactivity of older players and empty guilds being the cause of novices leaving has been circulating; and while that is certainly a problem, I think maybe we need to consider that, for the vast majority of people who try Lusternia, the game just isn't fun; and inside this majority, there is a group of players who would very much enjoy the features Lusternia offers, but who never make it past the newbie barrier. The newbie barrier consists of spending 24 hours in-game with no skills, and little to do besides kill stuff on Newton, kill stuff in the highways, and talk to other people who are often absent or disinterested.

I've made an alt recently. My guild and city were virtually empty all the time, but the single guildmate I've seen online was very helpful and nice. There was a real feeling that people (Or maybe I should say "person") in the guild were trying their best. But I'm afraid I won't be coming back; because no matter how much I enjoy (Or enjoyed) the roleplay, universe, and features of Lusternia, I simply do not have the drive to bash my way through 20 utterly unrewarding levels, and more before I can access any of the game's features I actually enjoy. I think a lot of other players have hit upon this barrier and left, as well; they're left with an impression that Lusternia revolves around grinding, or that it isn't fun.

It seems to me the administration's whole efforts towards retaining more novices are centered upon making players more effective at retaining novices; they're putting massive amounts of weight on the shoulders of innocent players here, and forgetting that it's also the game's responsibility to be enjoyable. All the newbie helpers in the world are no use if the game itself isn't fun.

There are two things we can do to remedy this: Either create "demo modes" of popular features (Many MMOs do that; Puzzle Pirates "doubloon" oceans, for example, makes all puzzles accessible publicly, in a limited sense, and charges for full access) or add features which are specifically geared towards newbies, and thus have a low barrier of entry and are simple to get into. The first has been suggested already in a sort of miniature aethership arena; the second exists in Achaea and Imperian, with butterfly hunting, but we can definitely do better than that.

More newbie areas with more quests to do (Simple ones that newbies can actually get through! The Newton honour quests are a clear example of how NOT to cater to newbies) and stuff to see (And yes, kill) would be good, too, but ideally we want more different things newbies can try.

ETA: Also, there are features newbies CAN use, but aren't aware of... how many newbies know that each village has a honours quest? Or about figurines, which are (relatively) cheap, if impossible to get a hold of? Or about our new custom emotes, or chess and casino games?

Well, some of these are decent points, but I'll add my own here. Our intro is great, our newbie area is great, but it's just missing something.

When I started WoW, I selected a character, and really got a feel for what kind of organization I'd just joined. I did quests that tied into the background of my race and area, and I felt a part of something, even though I didn't interact with a single person (though, I could have). I had something to do right off, and it wasn't after an intro, it -was- the intro.

Wouldn't it be nice for Serenwilders to start helping the forest, and learning about the history? What if there was a newbie area of the forest, that was for newbie quests, etc. What if Celestian novices got to start in a newbie section of the city (perhaps, a part of the library, or something), where they got taught the basics, and learned the history of the tainting of Magnagora, and why they hate them.

I think our problem is that our novices don't feel like they belong to something initially, it takes a lot of time to do that, while in other games, I felt like that right off. I joined an organization, or I was part of a band of adventurers, or something like that.

What was it that hooked so many of us initially, that we were able to overlook the fact that we were plopped into the middle of a game that did not make us feel like part of it until we'd played for a while? It was the rich history, the background, and the thing that made the world feel real. Why not incorporate that somehow? I bet most or all of our newbies don't even know about the histories (or heck, about the maps!).

Tael has me playing Imperian right now, and as much as I love Lusternia. The beginning to Imperian is really awesome, the novice areas for each organization are awesome and from what I've seen they tell some of the history, a bit about the current organization and set mini quests to show what the org is opposed to (Only gotten to try Ithaqua).

i tried imperian once and hated the map layout, but then again I was in antioch and the desert has crazy loops so I probably picked the hardest area to start navigating in. Then again they had the walk to command which is sweet

Not so, as it would help keep novices in as they're able to connect.

That was more aimed at Krellan than you.

I have high hopes for this thread. Please don't crush them making chit-chat about Imperian.

Let me share my experience as a true newbie.

Now, I'm not 100% clueless, I played Achaea for about 2 weeks. That gave me a feel for the basics of an IRE-style MUD and also gave me the feel that Achaea wasn't right for me (not gonna open THAT can of worms, I've seen many discussions on this fora that break down into Achaea hate. I liked what people I met there, I just started the character wrong and then didn't know where to go and then....well..that's another discussion.)

So, I decided to start trying out the other IRE muds, starting with Lusternia. I read the website. I have a horrendous ping so combat is never gonna be my thing, at least, until I get back stateside to a better Internet connection. So I looked for a race/class combination that could be more of a support role. Obviously, Bards piqued my interest immediately. The forums seems to agree that Faelings were the best Bards stat wise and although I don't consider myself a powergamer I don't want to walk around as a tremendously weak character unable to do anything (I see that Lusternia seems better about this than the other IRE muds). So, going from Faeling bard, I read the Faeling description, decided that it would be difficult to be a City Faeling due to the basics of the race (although it might be interesting RP). I decided on Serenwild after some forum posts noted that the Spiritsingers had very stable leadership (that's a good thing).

Then I decided to try to make the character. Actias in physical description was going to be a luna moth (Actias luna being the scientific name for a luna moth) based Faeling, with the luna moth antennae and wings, and otherwise standard Elfen features. Nothing too special for a first time character. The only background I had in mind was that he might have heard the Dead Voice awaken since he was barely old enough (Bards have been around about 15 IC years, right? If not, I was gonna have to redo that part of the background but I hadn't set it in stone yet anyway.) So with all that in mind, I went into the Portals of Fate....


Damn.

I don't want to hate on your game, here, but the Portals of Fate are the most boring thing ever. When I started on Achaea, it just seemed so much better, there was more things to do in the intro, you got a health vial in there and a backpack that didn't decay for 120 months instead of the 36 or so month stuff you get in Lusternia. There was more explanation of how to move around. There was more explanation of combat (heck, if I had started in Lusternia before Achaea, I would have had NO IDEA that I had to type punch shadow more than once. To be fair, I almost missed that part of the explanation in Achaea too but it was a lot clearer. I come from Aardwolf and other DIKU-muds being my previous MUD experience, you type 'kill' and walk away.)

But, I persevered. I got into the world, went to the PORTALS...and there was no chatter on the NEWBIE channel. There was a quick message on the GNT (which didn't tell me how to talk back...I had to guess, since in Achaea it's HNT and I figured, 'guilds' here. I got it right though.) and the standard "read GHELP BLAHBLAH". I did just that, and did a quick gwho. Almost nobody. :/ Cwho....almost nobody. From the forums, I was expecting a few more people. Who? 78 people. Found out I was on during an off-peak time from Lendren, though, who happened to log in. (BTW, Lendren is awesome. If I do manage to keep playing Lusternia, it'll be because of that.)

Well, on to the Newton Caverns! I started influencing things (I LOVE this. Although it's boring, but grinding is boring anyway.) I got the part about giving the various items to the finks and gnomes. Beyond that, I have yet to make it into the rest of the area because I always have to wander off for something and the portal timer resets before I get back to turn the crank or pull the lever (heck, I got the gnome to tell me the portal was ready, I went back to the portals, went right to the Golden Portal, pulled the lever about 50 times...quite annoying.) I did make it though the fink side one time long enough to chat with King Bolete a bit (and if I stay a bard, I'm gonna write a story about it. I claim it! No hitbacks!).

So...my experience? Aside from Lendren, I haven't talked to anyone else in the guild. This is more my fault due to my offpeakiness though, so I can't really complain about it. I still don't really have a clear picture of what the Spiritsingers do, save what the help files tell me (although I'm sure I'll get it cleared up once I'm on with enough people for a discussion). Lusternia may just not be the game I'm looking for either, although it seems a LOT closer.

Offpeak Lusternia is a terrible, boring game. I don't know if I even would have stayed if I started playing during Singaporean time like I am now...I started on British time those 2 years ago so I actually had people to talk to. Half the time during the late morning/early afternoon, it's so empty I just kind of sat there waiting for someone to turn up and played in tournament practice on MTGO. Nowadays I just log off at that kind of time.

It's not anything the Lusternia admin can feasibly fix, I'd think...but damn. I can sympathise.

I agree with a great deal of what Verithrax is saying. There is a very steep slope to climb before you can do anything really "fun" in Lusternia. Yes, it's possible to roleplay without any real investment, but it is rare that you will find someone who comes here with the desire to ONLY roleplay. Almost all of the game's interesting features require credits, or at least an enormous amount of time invested, and someone who comes here for say... combat can get frustrated very quickly at the number of skills they need to be an effective combatant.

I know a common defense is that person X or person Y has gotten where they are without buying credits through the website, but in these cases, the person in mind has spent hours upon hours bashing, questing, or guiding to earn those credits. Yes, you have people like me, and a few others who have a full time job, and can set money aside for credits if we want them, I think we are in the minority. The majority of our players, and of IRE's target market are in high school, or college, with very little disposable income.

So it becomes a question of economics - of making your $70-80 that you might be willing to spend on credits go as far as possible. For most novices who begin playing Lusternia, that's a lot of money to spend to see if they will enjoy the game.

I think that it would help us retain novices immensely if we gave our novices more to start off with. I bet novices would be a lot more interested if their character started out with, say... 400 lessons spent in each of their guild skills. As things are now, a novice who is completely new can go quite some time kicking gnomes and finks to death before someone in their guild teaches them about skills other than newbie attacks.

How odd, I'm in full agreement with Verithrax. Lusternia's barrier of entry is huge. Coming from another IRE game, it still took me 4-5 tries over close to a year to get into it. I see three problems:

(1) The whopper: There are a lot more mechanics in place (influencing, comm quests, village honours quests, quests affecting nations, karma, dependence on other people for trade goods, aetherships & bubbles...) They can get very complicated. (E.g. It took a very long time before I felt like I had a clue what was happening in Faethorn, although it seemed like something my character badly needed to understand.) They can be incomprehensible at first blush. (Oh look, a sea full of animals. I kill a shark. I kill a rockeater. I kill a turtle. I'm an enemy of what now? Why? Even better example: novice Nihilists meeting the Demon Lords for the first time. Ouch.) Experienced players often don't realise the extent to which novices need to have things explained to them. (How to recharge enchantments! Why you might get killed if you go to place X! Why someone would announce "Rage Coven" on CT! What conglutination is!) Doing the explaining isn't fun.

This game has a lot of awesome features, but it's unclear how you're supposed to figure out they even exist, unless you hit the forums or get taken under some older player's wing. Newton's the iconic example: best newbie area in any IRE game, by far - once you open the portals to Lolliprin. Otherwise, you're stuck in a dreary, ugly cave with little to do.

(2) The experienced players often have business on another plane. This leads novices to feel really lonely and to underestimate the game's population, and sometimes strands elder players on Prime when they'd rather be doing something else. As for novices who make a new char during a village revolt or major incident - well, they're just write-offs, aren't they? Even very well-intentioned players don't notice them or have time for them. And I fully agree that far too much is expected of players in terms of novice training. Training a novice often takes upwards of 1 hr, especially a totally new one. It gets old after the third time you do it. 3/4+ of them don't come back. Ew.

(3) The initial material cost is far higher. The cheap tattoos of other games are here enchantments on expensive jewellery, and you often have to track down an enchanter to get them. They run out faster than tattoos, and you need Magiclist to be able to tell when they'll run out. After that, most people need greatrobes, also a big investment, unless they're warriors, in which case they really need to save up.

There are a lot more must-have skills. At least focus mind isn't required to cure asthma-anorexia anymore, 'cause that was just silly. Thirdeye, however, is over 100 lessons, whereas in other IRE games you could get it by eating an herb worth 10 gold. Teleport's a must and higher Planar's necessary so you can access a lot of the important game areas and because being unable to conglutinate puts you at such disadvantage. You'll want some Influence and Aethercraft, of course... And OMG the 4 sec focus body time if you don't have high Discipline is deadly.

I appreciate that there are a lot more useful skills at lower skill ranks than in the other IRE games, that bit's well done. But there are also a lot more skills you need to be a reasonably competent character.

It just seems like you need pre-existing motivation to learn to play this game, and there's no reason for a new player to have that. Much more extensive automated, optional, intros would go a long way towards redressing this. For instance, after the intro, there might be an automated intro for your guild, including skills and a feel for the culture, which you can take at leisure. If no one from your guild's around, you'll take it right away; else you'll take it when your guild members suggest it. Then, from the newbie area, you could step through different portals that led you into training/demos of different features - an area devoted to planar travel, one for influencing, a miniature village with someone explaining revolts, a little aethercraft, etc... all available at your convenience, showing you the whole array of possibilities, and not demanding vast amounts of someone else's time. Giving them more equipment to start with - like short-lived Mercy, Perfection and Kingdom enchants and health, mana, bromides, mending, allheale and a couple of key herbs - is also nice. There's nothing more frustrating than getting killed because you're sprawled with a broken leg and lack the cure for it.

EDIT: Oh yeah! And the thing the intro doesn't tell you, and a lot of newbie-greeting-people forget to tell you, is how to talk to your guild or see who's on. I've met a few poor kids feeling very stranded by that...

EDIT2: While I'm at it - new players, especially if they've picked certain races, have trouble bashing for experience at first. So what quests are available to them? "Walk in a circle for 10 min collecting pilgrims, then walk a long, deserted way up a mountain where there's nothing to see to deliver them. Or the scholar equivalent." A lot of what's available for newbies is... hellishly dull and repetitive.

Influence did a lot to hook me here. Having it a whole other skill needing lots of lessons is kind of offputting but luckily the admins gave all active characters 75 credits when open beta ended. I threw all 75 into Influence and got up to Superego.

Let's see now... back when I first started...

Well I created my character and went through the Portal of fate. This was my first IRE game, though I had alot of other MUD-type experience before coming to IRE

I come into the game and almost immediately there was someone wanting to help me on GNT. I made my way to the tower and went through alot of training. Since this was the first time I had done it, there was alot to try to get through. Even with the person telling me how to do everything, I had very hard time figuring things out and remembering what to do. After learning the guild skills, I was sent off to Newton. Back then I never even know there was an area or two beyond just the beginning finks and gnomes because I saw the main NPC's but never knew what to do. I had never even thought about greeting them. so I killed a countless number of finks and gnomes, oh yeah before I forget I never knew you could turn in those bodies for money. I left them littered across Newton because I didn't know what else to do with them, nor did anyone even hint that there was a way to turn them in for some much needed starting money. I quickly got bored with that and asked the guild what else I could do and they talked me through chasing these fairies all over the forest, dragging them to a circle then finally back to the Tree which was even more time consuming than just killing finks and gnomes so I went back to Newton and trudged my way through it. About this time, some guy I never met before sends me a tell asking me to meet him in newton where he proceded to hit on me and grope me, where the first thought that went through my head was WTF and this was all on the first day I came into the game. Well something else made up for this, a woman came up to me and made me her daughter. Things got alot more fun after that with having family around which is about the only thing that made it bearable with the very steep learning curve to play Lusternia.

Well eventually I made it through Newton just killing the beginning finks and gnomes, seeing chains and whatnot drop from them but still not knowing what they were for so I left them on the floor as well. I never knew anything about honours quests or commodity quests until much later.



That was my first experience through and after learning alot over time, I recently went through the portal again

I found that noone even greeted me in the guild I joined even though there was members on GW. I never got any intro message and just read the GHELP INDEX to see what files there were and eventually found what I needed to read to see about training. So I go over and learn my guild skills myself, still noones bothered talking to me, theres just 3 or so people on and not one was above GR1 so I figure, they just don't care enough to say hi. I make my way to Newton once more and it's still as annoying as the first time I went through. There wasn't alot of people on since it was later a night. Got bored quickly doing that then went back to the Nexus so see if anyhthing interesting was going on to find noone (I could see anyways) about.

Even knowing what to do, I still found myself not wanting to go through Newton again because... it's boring compared to Archaea or Imperian or even Aetolia (which I couldn't really get into)

Some variety in low level content would probebly be a good thing to have for anyone just stepping through the portals. Most other MUD's I've played have also had starting items that were usually in the "newbie area" that were either given away through killing monsters or at a very discounted price in a store. I found it hard at first when I came through the portal. I didn't feel much sense of accomplishment other than grinding my way through Newton. Maybe something in the way of rewards for new players could be introduced such as you give (whatever npc) so many dead bodies and in addition to gold, she offers you a vial with maybe 10 sips of health (something claimable just once) or maybe a very lighwieght piece of generic armor to go on top of the generic clothes you have to buy in the tutorial. Maybe even add a few items around that if you find and deliver (for those that don't like combat or don't have a good ping) for some starting items. Just something generic that either decays at the same time at you lose PORTALS or has enough months use to see you at least part of the way through Newton. Just something than a new player can actually see and touch and feel like they did something.

I've found the barrier to integrate into IRE games in general is pretty daunting. I've had the most experience with Lusternia so I'm curious, is it very much harder to get a handle of than the other IRE franchises?

Dude, are you on crack? The only part of Newton that is boring is Level 1, and even that not so much. You can't seriously look at the majority of Newton and say a giant load of time and effort didn't go into it. Yes, compared to WoW the intro is not going to be as cool. But that's as much a limitation on IRE's policies (WoW fans would RIOT if they had to pay $100 to get skills they really needed) as it is how people compare the experience in Newton. Honestly, I made a lot of gold and really enjoyed the quests. Just do me one favour, take the darn three chain/gear policy out. It's hard as hell to find those, and it would be 1200X better if only one gear was needed to open the portal and let you through. If there were no living gnomes/finks, the portal should stay open. I think this is a good minor, useful fix.

Newton though is a little microcosmos that is totally disconnected from the overarching story and environment of Lusternia. It really doesn't give new players a feel of Lusternia.

And the way the portals work? Irritating as hell.

Oooh, do I get to talk about my novice experiences too? I've had three so far, the best by far being in the Paladins (which incidentally is where I now spend about 90% of my logged in time). While I was not hailed as soon as I got out of the Portal of Fate (and I didn't even know how to use PORTALS) and spent about half an hour just flying around (trill), someone eventually came around and asked how I was doing, gave me a ridiculously thourough and yet remarkably fast introduction to the guild, ideals, skills, etc. and reminded me that GREETing other sentient beings is always a good idea. From that, I rather easily managed to make my way into Lolliprin, but didn't get the honours quests because they were just so freaking huge and convoluted. Even knowing exactly how to do them, I still have trouble making it within the reset period, and it generally only works if nobody else is around to swipe/kill what I need, and thus agree with Karnagan's idea to make it easier to get into those areas.

I think what really hooked me was the rather frequent "hunting trips" that a bunch of people who are sadly no longer active took me on. That and the general inane chatter over CT, GT, and the Pool that seems to be so despised in other guilds/orgs. Sometimes, it's NICE to know that other people are alive and aware. It also opens up numerous opportunities to interact with people and immerse yourself in the roleplay. I remember being scared less when someone used Restore and then roared at me, which in retrospection was so ridiculously hilarious that now I do it all the time to novs. It's one of my favourite ways to "threaten" them into getting stuff done.

If I had to say one appalling thing about novice retention, it's that it more or less all relies on the players currently in the game.This may or may not be avoidable, but if the novs can't talk to people, that makes it rather difficult to ask for help. If the admins are looking for something a very easy that I feel would make a huge difference, I propose the following: since novs DO NOT know how to use PORTALS straight off (and they are MAJOR lifesavers) right off the bat, I think a HINT message would definately be in order for appearing right after they go OUT from the Portal (something like HINT: Try using PORTALS to find your way home. If you get lost, try using GNT or NEWBIE to get help). Even that tiny tiny fix would help immensely, in my opinion.

EDIT: perhaps even a brief tutorial on using PORTALS would be a nifty idea too. Make an area with one of the Fates telling you how to use 'em, make them necessary to get out of a certain area (probably the last/2nd to last) and just trigger any PORTALS used to take you to a special portal chamber with an exit to the next Shallamar area.

No offense what so ever rhassi. And I understand that it can be easily missed or overwhelming as a new player.

But basically everything you touch, pick up, and do in Newton is prempted with a HINT directing you where to go and what to do next generally. I'm supposing a lot of newbies maybe ignore them. But not knowing means they didn't read. I figured it all out pretty easily after having not touched an IRE game for 2+ years. Yes, I was confused. But I read, and the game lead me.


As for your personal experience, that's partly a fault of others not giving enough guidance to what was probably a completely bewildered new player. Most people have the corpse for gold thing at least mentioned to them and such. But yah, some one should have directed you to greet things, even though there's tons of information offered automatically within the first 2-3 hours of gametime tellign you to greet things and such.

No, I'm not on crack. What good is all the "content" if you don't know it's there? I never knew there was anymore when I first went through there. I still don't know after all this time of everything that's there to do. The most I've ever done there in the second area is get some gloves kill finks and give them to the ant queen and give a stone to the ant queen. I have absolutely no idea what else there is there. And it took me over a RL half a year to even find out there was more than just the first area. I made absolutely 'no' money in newton the first time I went through,except when the mobs dropped it, because I didn't know what to do. -That- is the point. People are droppped off in newton and told to figure things out for themselves, if even told that much information, then whatever they figure out is what they know.

Everyone has a first time through there where they don't know squat. There needs to be more help in figuring out what to do to make it a more enjoyable experience. Right off the bat, it's miserable for anyone that knows nothing about Newton. Which is where we are losing people at. Sure you say look at the majority of Newton
, since you obviously seem to know more about it than I do or probebly ever will. Try looking at it through the eyes of the 'average' person who first enters Lusternia for the first time. Not someone who actually knows what's there. I was offereing suggestions to try making it a more enjoyable place, which is what this thread is really about. Trying to make things better for people visiting the first time.

I thought Newton was fine. There were hints, and guides reminding people what to do on Newbie channel. After I got to Lolliprin it got much much better, so more hints that there's other areas beyond the starting caverns would help. What I didn't find so helpful was the HELP files, I've played other IRE games and I'm used to typing HELP + pretty much any word and getting some kind of file, in Lusternia the HELP files look like they only cover the basics.

Glomdoring is often empty but that's OK with me, I'm a nonstandard newbie because I like to play offpeak and go off and do my own thing. But like someone else said there's a lot that's confusing in this game (like Faethorn), I deal with it by sticking to what I know and learning the rest a tiny bit at a time. If I wanted to get into the thick of things right away, like, you know, the typical online games player, I'd get frustrated and go away.