The mission should you choose to accept it is simple:

Give me thoughts and opinions on grace, ways to change it, improve it, or do something helpful.

Lets try not to get personal, point names, or cough them...

I do want feedback, I dont want arguments... debates are fine, if you have valid reason and such.

I smell a flame-war!

*sits back and munches on Meiji chocolate almonds*


And no, I don't have anything thoughtful to add. Yet.

I don't think Grace should be extended off Prime - if you step onto another plane, you make yourself vulnerable to attack. That's just my opinion, though.

It should go away off plane or into enemy territory, then come back in 5-10 minutes after you return to nuetral or home territory. Tada.

If a mob can hit you, you should not have to reject grace to hit it! *mutter* I've died more often than I've liked because of that.

Couple of things I would like to see added to grace.

Transversing requiring the dropping of grace. (Also, entering a nexus world should be considered 'aggressive' so that grace has to be dropped also.)

Entering territory you are enemied to will require you to drop grace.

On the prime, outside of allied villages and your city, grace only acts like a 'shield' which can be destroyed through normal means. This prevents people from tossing around insults and such behind grace, and sitting there with a big ass grin, then running the moment grace times out.

Disable shouts while grace is up.

Wha? So what exactly do you see the point of grace being then?

Honestly, in Lusternia with the avenger system and such, grace is useless outside of preventing you from wailing on an oponent if the arena timed out. I mean it doesn't last long enough to really prevent repeat jumpings, and alls you can do with it now is have a temporary 'free griefing' period.

Grace is outdated and functionally unnecessary here. The only thing it ever gets used for is abuse and borderline issues (Glooms sitting there and collecting corpses while graced, Seren apparently running for the construct while graced).

I think that Grace on Nexus Worlds and grace in organization territory (For a Magnagoran on Nil, a Celestian on Celestia, a Seren in EthSeren, etc) is not only good, but essential.

Grace into enemy territory (an enemy Nexus World, or grace into Nil if you're enemied to Nil) is a Bad Thing. It shouldn't be used "offensively," but using it defensively is fine.

Combine Xenthos's reply and Forren's reply, and you get mine. Offplane? Grace goes away. Enemy terr? Grace also goes away.

That combination solves Daganev's problem too.

Keep the Grace of Innocence as it is (not that it doesn't get abused, too), and have Grace suspend while not on org territory.

Then whats the point? Protect you from your guildmates?

Yes, yes, definitely no, and no.

ETA: Grace does have a mechanical function in Lusternia... it allows you to go back to your organization after praying. Yeah, some people have teleport, but some people don't. I think it's fine as-is, except for the possibility of walking graced into enemy territory.

There have been no major pro lems with it so far. Why does it matter? The odd corpse or spy is irritating, but nothing that is crippling.

Grace definitly has the purpose of letting you get back to your org after praying. it needs to be kept to let you do that.

It can be auto-dropped when you enter enemy territory as you don't need to enter enemy territory to get to an org.

I'd also like to see it be auto-dropped if you start to fight. I can't tell you how many times I've been defending nil, get killed, had to pray for some reason, and went back to nil not thinking about grace and only relized it when I went to harrow my demon. I would hate for me to enter with grace up in a battle like that.

And yea the last reason is selfish and personal but what can I say.

Exploiting Grace during wildnodes =

nononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononono

Then have grace drop or suspend in enemy territory only. And for this purpose only, Astral is enemy territory to everyone.

I think drastically shortening the duration would be enough. 75-90 seconds. Teleport nexus, get onto a nexus world, find your group, start deffing. Astroglide, teleport to group member, start deffing. More complex systems do not usually yield cleaner results.

Do we assume that anyone without the Grace of Innocence has or should have teleport?