Genos2007-08-02 00:48:31
Normally I wouldn't bring this up but Achaea has instituted a new "experiment."
Anyways I was wondering what you all thought about implementing this in Lusternia. I think it would help stop people from ruining the credit market which has been ranted about since as long as I can remember.
QUOTE
ANNOUNCE NEWS #2569
Date: 7/29/2007 at 2:23
From: Clementius, the Weaver
To : Everyone
Subj: A coming change to the credit market
In a few real life days we will embark on something which will change
the credit market drastically, for at least a time.
When this begins, which will be announced in the next few days:
* ALL credit market buys will result in bound credits, and give bonus
lessons if proper.
When we make this change, we'll monitor to decide if this should go on
indefinitely, or end after a period. We'll announce when it goes in, and
announce when we decide to take it out or let it stay.
What are we doing?
------------------
All credit market buys will give you bound credits. If you had bonus
lessons coming from binding credits, then you will receive those bonus
lessons (see HELP LESSONS, where bonus lessons are discussed).
This will not change private credit transfers. Private credit transfers
will still be based on unbound credits only, on both ends.
Why are we doing this?
----------------------
We'd like to see lower credit prices.
Perhaps a bit more detail would be helpful. We hope to remove
what appears to be one huge part of the upward pressure on credit
prices: speculators.
We have watched the credit market for some time and noticed that a very
large number of offers of credits for sale are made by credit
speculators. These speculators buy credits and then offer them for
resale, usually without delay, at a higher price.
Whatever else may result from this change, we are quite sure that
speculation will cease. And people will probably not be using credits as
a way of avoiding the use of banks.
When are we doing this?
-----------------------
Probably in another real life day or two. Maybe three. We'll tell you!
What should you do?
-------------------
If you have some credits for sale and don't want to sell them in the new
system, by all means do CREDITS SELL NONE. Otherwise, just wait and the
change will come and your market buys will arrive as bound credits.
What else might happen?
-----------------------
- We hope that taking away this upward pressure on credit prices will
mean that they'll drop.
- Probably a lot more transactions will occur privately.
- Maybe everybody's skin will turn various shades of red and they'll all
start singing the Internationale (excellent * music, by the way!)
with an Achaean accent.
Honestly, we don't know for sure. This is why we're going to monitor and
decide if this has been a good change or not.
(*) Someone has pointed out that the Internationale was written in French.
Quite true! It was also never the official anthem of the Soviet
Union. And did you know that the old song "South of the Border
down Mexico Way" was written by two Irishmen, and sung most famously
by an Italian American, though is often thought of as country?
Penned by my hand on the 10th of Phaestian, in the year 456 AF.
Date: 7/29/2007 at 2:23
From: Clementius, the Weaver
To : Everyone
Subj: A coming change to the credit market
In a few real life days we will embark on something which will change
the credit market drastically, for at least a time.
When this begins, which will be announced in the next few days:
* ALL credit market buys will result in bound credits, and give bonus
lessons if proper.
When we make this change, we'll monitor to decide if this should go on
indefinitely, or end after a period. We'll announce when it goes in, and
announce when we decide to take it out or let it stay.
What are we doing?
------------------
All credit market buys will give you bound credits. If you had bonus
lessons coming from binding credits, then you will receive those bonus
lessons (see HELP LESSONS, where bonus lessons are discussed).
This will not change private credit transfers. Private credit transfers
will still be based on unbound credits only, on both ends.
Why are we doing this?
----------------------
We'd like to see lower credit prices.
Perhaps a bit more detail would be helpful. We hope to remove
what appears to be one huge part of the upward pressure on credit
prices: speculators.
We have watched the credit market for some time and noticed that a very
large number of offers of credits for sale are made by credit
speculators. These speculators buy credits and then offer them for
resale, usually without delay, at a higher price.
Whatever else may result from this change, we are quite sure that
speculation will cease. And people will probably not be using credits as
a way of avoiding the use of banks.
When are we doing this?
-----------------------
Probably in another real life day or two. Maybe three. We'll tell you!
What should you do?
-------------------
If you have some credits for sale and don't want to sell them in the new
system, by all means do CREDITS SELL NONE. Otherwise, just wait and the
change will come and your market buys will arrive as bound credits.
What else might happen?
-----------------------
- We hope that taking away this upward pressure on credit prices will
mean that they'll drop.
- Probably a lot more transactions will occur privately.
- Maybe everybody's skin will turn various shades of red and they'll all
start singing the Internationale (excellent * music, by the way!)
with an Achaean accent.
Honestly, we don't know for sure. This is why we're going to monitor and
decide if this has been a good change or not.
(*) Someone has pointed out that the Internationale was written in French.
Quite true! It was also never the official anthem of the Soviet
Union. And did you know that the old song "South of the Border
down Mexico Way" was written by two Irishmen, and sung most famously
by an Italian American, though is often thought of as country?
Penned by my hand on the 10th of Phaestian, in the year 456 AF.
Anyways I was wondering what you all thought about implementing this in Lusternia. I think it would help stop people from ruining the credit market which has been ranted about since as long as I can remember.
Unknown2007-08-02 00:52:43
Very interesting idea. We'll see how it works out in Achaea; I'm guessing that if things turn out well they'll do the same in other IRE games, assuming other games also suffer from these speculators.
Krellan2007-08-02 00:53:35
it definately happens here, I've seen it and used to be one when I actually was trying to build up lots of gold.
Simimi2007-08-02 00:57:58
Sounds like a very interesting experiment, I am greatly looking forward to the results!
Gaetele2007-08-02 01:12:28
I'm looking forward to benefitting from the results.
Unknown2007-08-02 01:25:08
I WANT
Shiri2007-08-02 01:41:42
I really hope this goes through.
Unknown2007-08-02 15:21:14
I realize that most people depend on credit market, but are you guys just ignoring the bad side of bound credits having limited use?
Unknown2007-08-02 15:29:54
The only real downside I see to this change is that you can't give credits to friend for services or favors. The credits you buy off the market are really much better spent on lessons and artifacts. The concern about losing out on bonus lessons seems to have been answered, too.
Unknown2007-08-02 16:02:18
To get unbound credits you will have to resort to 'private transactions' that are somewhat risky.
Also, I'd expect less credits on market, though I can't predict if it's gonna be a big difference, or just negligible.
Don't get me wrong, I've never speculated with credits and I would personally benefit from that kind of change (assuming it will have the desired effect).
Also, I'd expect less credits on market, though I can't predict if it's gonna be a big difference, or just negligible.
Don't get me wrong, I've never speculated with credits and I would personally benefit from that kind of change (assuming it will have the desired effect).
Shiri2007-08-02 16:08:16
Private transactions aren't risky at all.
TRANSFER 10 CREDITS TO KASHIM FOR 4000 GOLD (or it may be 40000, but you can look that up.)
TRANSFER 10 CREDITS TO KASHIM FOR 4000 GOLD (or it may be 40000, but you can look that up.)
Shayle2007-08-02 16:17:51
QUOTE(Zarquan @ Aug 2 2007, 11:29 AM) 430930
The only real downside I see to this change is that you can't give credits to friend for services or favors. The credits you buy off the market are really much better spent on lessons and artifacts. The concern about losing out on bonus lessons seems to have been answered, too.
You could always give money to buy credits to friends for services or favors.
I'd like to see this happen here as well. I hate seeing people making it harder for others to "share the wealth" so to speak by messing with the credit market. I understand the need for free market enterprise, but I'd prefer people having a way to learn the skills they need, so they will stay in Lusternia and keep playing with us.
Unknown2007-08-02 16:23:58
QUOTE(Shiri @ Aug 2 2007, 06:08 PM) 430936
Private transactions aren't risky at all.
TRANSFER 10 CREDITS TO KASHIM FOR 4000 GOLD (or it may be 40000, but you can look that up.)
TRANSFER 10 CREDITS TO KASHIM FOR 4000 GOLD (or it may be 40000, but you can look that up.)
Forgot it works that way, haven't done it in... years.
Seems like there really is no distinct downside after all.
Unknown2007-08-02 16:24:12
Well why do you need to buy unbound credits? The only reason I can think of is to sell them...
Unknown2007-08-02 16:35:35
To give away, especially that you can't buy an artifact for someone else. It works both ways, sort of - you might not want to do that, but there are people who do and need to get them first, not necessarily in position to buy them OOC.
But since that's covered by transactions, I can see no particular issues with that kind of change anymore. Quite the contrary - I'd like to see it implemented, if it works (and it should).
But since that's covered by transactions, I can see no particular issues with that kind of change anymore. Quite the contrary - I'd like to see it implemented, if it works (and it should).
Unknown2007-08-02 17:06:17
To be honest, I'm not sure if this change would affect Lusternia positive at all. One thing you have to keep in mind is that Lusternia is much smaller than Achaea.
I think it much more likely that Lusternia might 'dry up' on credits on the market. That in turn will raise the prices for those few still being sold. This change might help and lower the prices but it can just as easily backfire (even if it turns out it works in Achaea won't mean it has to here as well).
EDIT:
So basically whether it works or not will largely depend on how many players buy how many credits regularely.
I think it much more likely that Lusternia might 'dry up' on credits on the market. That in turn will raise the prices for those few still being sold. This change might help and lower the prices but it can just as easily backfire (even if it turns out it works in Achaea won't mean it has to here as well).
EDIT:
So basically whether it works or not will largely depend on how many players buy how many credits regularely.
Unknown2007-08-02 20:11:01
i hate the idea i think its a massive negative, really hurting the non-credit buyers. and i don't want to see this in any way happen.
-edit- reasons for hate i think this will massivly make any credit you want to buy on market be way way higher... and that really bites people like me who don't buy ooc credits
-edit- reasons for hate i think this will massivly make any credit you want to buy on market be way way higher... and that really bites people like me who don't buy ooc credits
Unknown2007-08-02 20:15:21
I'm a non-credit buyer, and I kinda like the idea.
How does it hurt the resellers? All they're doing is earning relatively small amounts of gold profit in a futile scheme. It just makes them go outside and play with others to get their gold, even if just interacting with the NPCs. No more sitting at home day trading!
How does it hurt the resellers? All they're doing is earning relatively small amounts of gold profit in a futile scheme. It just makes them go outside and play with others to get their gold, even if just interacting with the NPCs. No more sitting at home day trading!
Unknown2007-08-02 21:13:59
I don't like this idea, mostly because the basic premise is flawed. It works off of the assumption that the speculators are single-handedly driving the credit market up, which demonstrates a misunderstanding of free market economics.
The basic premise of a free market system is that the market can manage itself. The sellers want to raise the price as high as they possibly can - they keep the price from dropping too low by refusing to sell their product/service below a certain price. The buyers want to drop the price as low as possible - they keep the price from raising too high by refusing to buy the product/service above a certain price. The system can be "broken" in the case of a monopoly, since the seller can single-handedly set the price and the buyers are required to pay it. In every other case, the buyers and sellers together set the fair market price for a product or service.
So, the simple application for this situation...this solution is aimed specifically at speculators on the assumption that those speculators cause the credit price to skyrocket. They ignore the fact that the buyers are still paying for those credits. If the buyers refused to buy them, the speculators would have to drop their prices. There is no monopoly, and the buyers are not wholly dependent on those credits - the fact that they are still selling means that the buyers agree that the price is fair. To put in a system like this is to interfere when it's not really needed; the buyer and seller agree that the price is acceptable. Why step in and tinker with the system when people on every side are apparently in agreement with it?
The basic premise of a free market system is that the market can manage itself. The sellers want to raise the price as high as they possibly can - they keep the price from dropping too low by refusing to sell their product/service below a certain price. The buyers want to drop the price as low as possible - they keep the price from raising too high by refusing to buy the product/service above a certain price. The system can be "broken" in the case of a monopoly, since the seller can single-handedly set the price and the buyers are required to pay it. In every other case, the buyers and sellers together set the fair market price for a product or service.
So, the simple application for this situation...this solution is aimed specifically at speculators on the assumption that those speculators cause the credit price to skyrocket. They ignore the fact that the buyers are still paying for those credits. If the buyers refused to buy them, the speculators would have to drop their prices. There is no monopoly, and the buyers are not wholly dependent on those credits - the fact that they are still selling means that the buyers agree that the price is fair. To put in a system like this is to interfere when it's not really needed; the buyer and seller agree that the price is acceptable. Why step in and tinker with the system when people on every side are apparently in agreement with it?
Acrune2007-08-02 21:28:13
QUOTE(krin1 @ Aug 2 2007, 04:11 PM) 431040
i hate the idea i think its a massive negative, really hurting the non-credit buyers. and i don't want to see this in any way happen.
-edit- reasons for hate i think this will massivly make any credit you want to buy on market be way way higher... and that really bites people like me who don't buy ooc credits
-edit- reasons for hate i think this will massivly make any credit you want to buy on market be way way higher... and that really bites people like me who don't buy ooc credits
This doesn't really make sense... how does it hurt the non-credit buyer other then not being able to speculate anymore?
I like the idea myself, but I don't buy credits from the market or OOCly. It seems to me like the supply would stay about the same (people aren't going to sell more or less OOC credits because of this I imagine), but demand would go down (speculators won't want to buy as much anymore, and if they do, the money is gone and they won't be able to buy more cheaper credits).
