I've been asked to post this to let people know what the night altar construct does and also to point out a few problems with it and change which would resolve these.

First of all this is what the construct does:
TOUCH - Gives the nightwraith aura for 10 power
Nightwraith aura allows TELEPORT NIGHT from prime/ethereal/astral
Nightwraith aura allows TOUCH GLASS transport from Shadow Glass to Night Altar
Nightwraith aura allows DRINK SHADOWS, the equivalent of the Night ritual drink, for 4 power
Shadowdancers can SHADOWDANCE DRINK at half power cost
Shadowdancers with Cone can do the spell individually.

It's a great construct for Shadowdancers generally, however it's lacking for those of us without Night. Drink requires shadows to be released into the room which is impossible for most of us to do, those of us without the Crow/Night skill also lose our regen in shadows.

I've been speaking to people to find out their opinions and so far the suggested ideas for improvements are:

- Allow the construct to remove the regeneration penalty for people with the Nightwraith aura while in shadow.
- Either allow drink to work at nighttime or allow people with the Nightwraith aura to release shadows for a power cost (2-4?)

The line about Shadowdancers being able to use drink at half power should probably be altered to say people with the Night skill too.

Hopefully we can keep this thread productive and not end up with the typical arguments and flaming.

EDIT: The Nightwraith aura should also show up in DEF when someone has it.

I don't think it's finished building yet, has it?

I think the construct sounds very nice as is, but the suggestions seem fair enough. I don't think drink should work at nighttime - that would be too much. It would make sense for people with nightwraith aura to be able to release shadows so they could actually use drink. The problem, though, is that gives everyone in Glomdoring the ability to stop the regen of all enemies, which is a pretty big upgrade. The power cost should at least be pretty high (maybe like 6p?) to keep it from being whored everywhere.

Seems like it would be more efficient to make it feed off of the Nightwraithe Aura instead of removing regen, then (which is actually what I'm hoping it does, anyways). Would make sense that the aura can fuel it, without negatively affecting others nearby.

I think Xenthos' idea would help resolve the problem you mentioned. And yeah the construct finished building at the turn of the month.

That would be ideal, but that's still a pretty big upgrade, in that it allows drink to be effective 100% of the time. Maybe allow a 2p ability to spread your aura in the room, or something like that, which would allow drink to work for anyone in the room, but without the other effects of shadows?

i disagree with letting drink go off nighttime as well as the shadows. cauldrons were changed to be more mobile and easy to throw up all over the place, and there are very rarely any circumstances when a night user isn't around to shadow if you need it in group fighting. i don't know for sure, but i doubt it could be much further than expert in the skillset.

adding the nightwraith aura defense to the list of night/crow users not losing their regenerations in shadows only makes sense. hell... it makes more sense than crow users not losing theirs

letting people release their own shadows sounds reasonable, but the power cost would have to be higher. even a shadowdancer without nightkiss will use up 3 power, have to collect it, and then finally release it

the construct is nice, but only for the ease of transportation for most as was mentioned elsewhere. beyond that, you really only have some power conservation, of which it will take you 5 times logging in and out to make use of... and that's assuming you don't die i would imagine. the coning change is nice, and mimics the starchant versions... but meh. takes away from the nice group hunts, and woe.... woe be to astral if all night users get that piece of the pie >.>

So it doesn't actually work without released shadows? Hmm... unfortunate.

Anyways, Derian-- how long would this "diffused aura" last? 5 minutes is a pretty darn slim time, and it would only really be useful for PK jumping / astral bashing where the mobs come to you. 2p over a Kepheran hive is a significant amount of power, as would 2p in each of the Catacombs rooms whenever you move.

I'd be more interested in letting this Drink skill work off of your aura without requiring power for each room, but instead making it an overall power consumption. Make it fade in 1h after casting (or 30m after casting). Still have a more significant power expenditure, and it still poofs any time you die or log out, but it's got more of a general purpose use (essential).

Night User's drink wouldn't fade at the time limit, of course, so it'd be a pure upgrade for them, but more limited for the rest of us.

Shadows should not stop the regeneration of those with the Nightwraith aura, and Drink should work at night (I see this as equal to +2 intelligence/strength at night, and this is also less 'OP' than Drink feeding from the Nightwraith aura).

At the moment, a bard/monk/tracker will only benefit from the construct when there's a Night user releasing shadows for them, and still have to give up health/mana/ego regeneration for Drink to work.

As a note, the Constructs are meant to be useful to the entire Commune in multiple situations. Lich to everyone, resurgem to everyone, prayers to everyone-- without requiring that the Nihilist, Moon users, or Celestines be accompanying the individual at all times.

I'm not sure you'd appreciate it if I ordered you to follow me around and release shadows for me while I hunt, for example.

That all sounds fair enough. What do you mean by an overall power consumption? Like a continuous drain? Depending on how the cost is worked out, I like this idea.

an all too valid point, but i would be very very hesitant in giving night users' drink any upgrades. it needs downgraded if anything

What if the base Drink skill itself was changed to last 1 hour (or 30 minutes) from cast? It then can't be put up again except during night / in released shadows. This would make the base Drink skill cost more power over time for use (but hey, it's worth it, right?). 4-8p an hour is a bit of a drain over time, but the real thing is that it'll burn up shadows or make a Shadowdancer stop hunting to go find a Night-orbed manse.

Keep this time even with the Construct up, but at half the power cost for a Night user (just like it is now). Then it'd be 2-4p every hour with the need to release a shadow, and a non-Night user would be burning 4-8 as well as needing to go to a manse if it isn't nighttime (or find a Night user to release a shadow).

Then let it feed off the Nightwraithe aura. Basically modifying the base skill downwards so that the Construct-improved one isn't quite as much of an improvement for a Night-user, but it's still darned decent.

I could go with this. It would need to be ~2p for a night user (more if you count the shadows, but then they don't have to release shadows) and ~4p for a non-night user. I don't know about Glom's power policy, but that should be easy enough to keep up most of the time during hunting. Traveling drink + nightkiss would be amazing for night ebonguard/SD hunting, but then so is the MD fae + drawdown combination.

I would also prefer to see it last only 30 minutes. That sounds really short, but with a lower power cost it shouldn't be a huge deal to just go raise it again. The shorter time limit makes it harder to keep up constantly - it's a very nice skill, so I would like to see it require a little bit of extra effort to keep it up all the time. If you leave it at 1 hour, then the person can just always raise it at night, then raise it again immediately when it drops (since it will be night again). At 30 minutes, they have to actually go a little bit out of their way to keep it up constantly.

I was actually thinking, "Lasts 1h, fades at dawn."

You'd always have to find a released shadow or a manse, but you'd also know when it's going down.

when you consider a shadow for each room, or even any room in which you linger for five minutes.... even with nightkiss we'll say that's 12 power for shadows in which drink would be active. that leaves your suggestion a cheaper alternative and also leaves it on you at all times. i think drink cures too much too fast, and the only thing that balances that out is the stationary (or costly) nature of needing to be in a shadowed room

Does it really cure fast? It seems to cure at around the same rate as aquamancer demesne, hallowed ground and other similar effects do. Also some effects like aquamancer demesne and cacophony song vileblood gives them a good deal of mobility for bashing.

let's not forget even with drink, in the half hour sitting in one place you'll outlast a single shadow

that aside as just being a consideration for earlier discussion, hallowedground is stationary as well and doesn't last as long. though drink does seem to fire about as often as those, at least with the aqua demesne... i think it's safe to say drink cures more health, albeit the affliction rate is on par. aqua demesnes are still stationary and sweetfount takes power too

Aqua demesne allows for a great deal of mobility, however. You can demesne an entire area for 1p per room, and then move around all you want within the demesne hunting (so if you're in a place with respawns, or Astral, you don't have to worry about leaving a room or replacing the demesne meld every 5 minutes). You do have to re-sweetfount every so often, which would also be the case with this.

Aqua demesnes also aren't (yet) enhanced by a Construct. That'll be the next Construct, though, something to do with Water (already got the Celestia one).

You also have bard songs, which are very mobile, as Lisarel pointed out. Hallowedground is a valid comparison, and I'd compare it to an un-Construct-enhanced version of Drink (giving base Drink a time limit would actually bring it in line), with an improvement via the Construct.

If nothing else, please just allow cauldrons to respawn 5 shadows each Lusternian midnight. Please.

That one change would make me (and every Shadowdancer I know) completely happy with this construct.