For some reason I couldn't reply to the bard topic, so I am putting this one and bringing up another point.

why are there champion artifacts? At all? I mean, champions are supposed to be good ass kickers as is. Why are we giving them mega-guitars and super staffs? I'm seriously curious? Cause with bards who whore transfix, coupled with the super long stun from earwort blanknoting. It makes them even more unmanagable. You can always not use truehearing, but then what happens is their songs that stop you from healing or drinking lay in and then they are still at an advantage and you're healing is all gimped up.

Then you add on the lyre of OMFG-it-hits-way-too-hard-cause-they-are-a-champion and it's really hard to fight a bard without becoming a tumble or run away whore. Are bards still killable, sure, but it's either you tank all their fully prepped songs and hope that they don't pull off some insta-kill or whatever, while transfix whoring you to death, or you avoid most of their song afflictions by eating earwort, then being stunned the whole time while they blanknote, minorsecond minorsecond minorsecond minorsecond, blanknote, minorsecond etc.

I'm totally for champion weapons being able to save little guys and such, like where they swap places with ya, cause a champion is supposed to support and protect the guild, but to have these helms, guitars of doom, staffs of insane power added ontop it, it sucks. Half the champions I think purely take the job, cause of the insane power of the weapons. And not cause they give a flying F about anything else

Most people agree that Champion Artifacts are overpowering, and their only power should be to Rescue/look cool (let Guardians/Wiccans keep pets for cosmetic effect!).

But the administrators seem to be set in allowing the Champion Artifacts to remain as-is. Not sure why.

I don't mind a combat bonus for champion artifacts.

I will, however, agree that certain artifacts are too powerful, and the benefits are not equal between guilds.

There'd be nothing wrong with scaling the benefits of the artifacts down to the worst ones. Helms, orbs, nerf 'em.

Nerf them into oblivion, I say. No need for anything besides rescue and the classy look of them, really.

It makes sense to me that they should gain something in exchange for the work they put in and responsibility they take on, but the champion artifacts have always seemed like too much for that. Maybe I'd feel different if there was ever a chance of me being one, but I don't think so. Rewards for service should be powerful enough to be a reward, but not so powerful as to become the reason to serve.

I'd argue that if you nerfed them just to look cool and such, there'd be no need for the position of Champion. The Champion Artifacts actually do set apart Lusternia from the rest of IRE, and while they wouldn't exist in any other guilds across IRE (because the loads of artifacts they have in those games). I agree with Gwylifar in that they deserve something for putting the extra time and commitment in.

That's not saying some of them couldn't use the nerf stick, however.

Anyone offhand know what the monk and bard artis do?

Toning champion artifacts down has come up in the past, and from what I can tell, the discussion just died out. Rescue would still stay, of course, but the combat benefits can be brought up with the envoys.

Shuck wasn't the biggest advantage to being Champion. To me, the biggest mechanical advantage was the no-Karma-loss. I don't know, I'd be happy being Champ even if Shuck was simply there to 'look badass'...

Maybe that's just because Shuck's the worst Champ pet, but eh. Would people who are Champions at the moment remain in their position if Champion artifacts were to be reduced to Rescue?

What do each of the Champion pets do anyway?

Black Shuck - Paralysis/Blacklung are the most common (Mana loss?/Damage) being rare

Nil Grim Horror - Fear (laff)/Blackout {Damage being rare/not sure if he has another)

The Handmaiden of Shakiniel (by far the best, btw) - Blackout/Paralysis (mana loss is rare, I believe)

Patchou - Aeon/Knocks off Balance (Mana loss is somewhat common compared to the rest)

EDIT: Shuck is great in Choke with the Blacklung. Grim is the worst imo, his blackout is the only thing worth it. Though his damage is painful, but extremely rare. The Handmaiden (Aka Assmaiden) is probably the most complained about Champ pet. Patchou is good only because of the aeon, and the uncommon mana loss.

Grim also chills and the Handmaiden has a damage attack.

Shuck's by far the weakest, btw. Grim is fine since blackout is awesome for guardians (masked soulless, anyone?) and his chill attack can become nasty when coupled with archlich coldaura or venoms from barbedtail.

I suppose. I've hardly ever seen the chills, really. The most I see from Grim from fighting Mal in the arena was his Fear attack, and a blackout about once or twice. Though I suppose with Coldaura it's not bad. Shuck still is deadly in Choke, but I suppose you could make that argument for any of the ents in Choke, except Patchou.

Yeah, they each have their pros and cons. I think they each compliment the guild they're paired with very well.

Of course, the Assmaiden is still OP.

@Xavius: I know that the Bard arties increase song length and damage, and automatic maestro level. If there's anything else than that, I don't know. As for Monks, Ali told me that it increases the amount of Ka or something per combo, and that her damage is increased. Not sure about wounding. It's possible. I think Desitrus has his now, so it might not hurt to ask him or Alianna.

How often does Archlich coldaura fire, btw?

I think champion artifacts should stay as is. Like Tael said, if not for them the entire Champion positions seems sort of useless. Or at least less cool.

Another reason for having a more powerful weapon is if you -do- Rescue someone, right into the middle of a gank, you might need something to help you out a little. Even the "best" fighters can't win against overwhelming numbers.

Then add a room-wide stun upon the Champion rescuing in against anyone who had declared against the person you rescued.

I agree 100%.

As someone stated earlier, this subject has come up multiple times before in the past. Each time it has died out, giving me the impression that the Admin likes the status quo concerning champ artifacts.

My personal opinion is that Champion Artifacts should only hold the rescue function on them, perhaps expanding rescue to work on anyone from the same city or commune as the champion. I personally think that if all they had was rescue on them, only those who wanted the position to aid their guild and city/commune, not to just boost their own personal power, would seek the position. I think that change would be a good thing.

It's not that it has died out, it's that we've been told (many times) directly that the admin like the artifacts as-is and envoys trying to get them tweaked downwards anyways.

And yes, I agree. That would be a good thing.