With the discussion of the radical changes affecting 4th Edition D&D, and how it might affect some of Wizard's existing campaign settings, I was thinking of a hypothetical situation for Lusternia.

Let's say there's a cataclysmic plot. I'm gonna make one up, but it could be something. Suppose one of the 12 goes crazy and starts destroying other Elders. Or Morgfyre finds the trapped Illith and eats her, only to be taken over spiritually by her. The basin starts getting destroyed. Kethullu is released to check Illith, Illith releases the other Soulless, the elders start dying, the communities are being destroyed, Avechna and the Remaining elders are struggling to check the powers At the peak of despair, Estarra summons all mortals to the Portal of Fate, and intervenes with the Fates. All beings are thrust in there...then something happens...

All people are taken 1500 years into the future of the Basin.

This is a very different world. The Soulless destroyed each other, the existing Elder Gods are gone. But apparently new gods have been found--Either lost Elders or new Vernal gods. The world is a very different place. The existing communities as you knew them no longer exist. Perhaps Hallifax, Gaudigulch, and/or Ackleberry came back. Or perhaps only Celest survived or Magnagora. Perhaps new communites were formed to make up for the destroyed ones. And the basin is different--some villages are now ghost towns or ruins, new ones may have formed. Perhaps the end of the Soulless removed Taint completely? Or perhaps so much has changed you can no longer determine what is tainted. Perhaps the angels and demons destroyed each other. Who knows? It would be up to the Admin to create the new status quo.

The players would have all their old skills, but as if they had become rogues--no commune/city specific powers allowed, and only clan channels would exist. Of course, artifacts exist as well as manses. The players would have to choose to join a new community--they are refugees out of time. Existing players who weren't around for the event would automatically have been removed and would reappear at the portal of fate or some special area explaining the changes, new players would have a modified intro.

Additionally, radical changes could be introduced--certain skills might not work the same, maybe all herbs are changed, etc...

So...

What would you do if something like this happened?

Would you continue to play in this environment, wanting to explore the new world, having a chance to recreate communities from scratch?

Or would such changes alienate you to a point you'd leave?

Absolutely.

As in, absolutely I would still play. It actually sounds like fun!

Sounds like one of those things that's better in theory than in practice.

I might still play since the community is the same, but it'd piss me off.

I wasn't trying to advocate either way, I'm just curious because sometimes "reboots" work and other times they fail. Sometimes a reboot is considered better than the original, other times it's a massive failure and alienates the existing die-hards.

I'm just curious how the players of this game would react if something like this happened here. I know some players want to get back the feeling they had during "open beta", when the world was new. Others are really attached to their communities and archetypes, and wouldn't want anything to change.

Shiri, what do you mean by "community". Are you talking about the characters would still all be together, that is a bunch of ex-Serenwilder's figuring out what to do, or are you talking about your relationships with the players on an OOC level?

Latter would be the same, which is essential for me bothering to play here.

I imagine the former would fragment significantly, and a good portion would choose different things to me. That'd be depressing.

I kind of think the feeling I had during open BETA was more fun because I came from the perspective of a warcraft 3 player who just killed things. Now that I have time invested and actual friends here (and am better able to understand that different people look for different things, and that being ganked in Avechna-free zones for no reason isn't fun for them) that experience wouldn't be anywhere near as fun.

I think I might enjoy it more if the old Lusternia was kept but a new one where no one cared about anything was formed might be more interesting 'cause you could get away with whatever you wanted there without bothering anyone.

I would play a rebooted Lusternia just to see how it is when everyone is on the same level with everyone and everybody basically has the chance to do something that really counts. Never played a MUD which has just started and has a population larger than 5.

Would we get lessons refunded if we lost guild skills? And free credits?

Assuming this was done, and there wasn't a radical change of archetypes, or any new races, just new ones replacing old ones (like Pyromancers instead of Aquamancers), or new political situations, I'd say forgetting a "lost" archetype skillchoice would give all the lessons back.

I wouldn't give away credits--this is a business after all--but artifacts have their trade-in values, and I'd probably have a credit sale at the same time, and maybe one free reincarnation.

what about maybe bonus lessons? Don't think that costs anything

Hmm...

Even as a new player, it's a difficult choice. My cousin suggested that I try playing this game (without a great deal of MUD or other game experience on my part) and I really enjoy it, in large part because of the deep and expansive storyline. Each city/commune has things about it that make it really unique, and they are woven deeply into the history of the game.

Essentially wiping the slate clean destroys a great deal of this. I see such a thing as a last resort for a failed story, not one as vibrant, refined, and fun as the one that exists presently.

Would I continue to play? Well, I'd probably try it, but I'd be sad to see the old one go. I haven't voted, because "yes" is far too positive, and "no" wouldn't be a totally honest answer. I'd like to see "I'd try it, but would rather not see it happen" as an option, or something to that effect.

However, if the new world turned the game into a world of powerful people wailing on non-combatants who either/or stood no chance skill/character wise, and/or wanted nothing to do with such combat? Yes, I would quit in a heartbeat. There's plenty of other games out there for people who want to have fun by ruining other peoples'. That's not something I'm interested in being any part of anywhere.

Seems like this wouldn't benefit people who've bought artifacts. Certainly it wouldn't benefit people who've sunk money into manses, and bought manse artifacts (which are permanent, cannot be traded in.) I'd be pretty pissed if I suddenly lost my 1000cr shop artifact, 2 250cr fountains, 3 50cr stasis gems, a 525cr manse dweller, and a 250cr garden. Not to mention the furniture and stock.

I could imagine the demigods suddenly being reverted to level 1 and going wtf?

Then having to relearn everything, that's assuming you get your lessons back?


I say a huge no to this.

Just a couple of comments...people seem to be ignoring a few factors. Again, this is all hypothetical but I assume the following rules:

You would KEEP your levels. You're not suddenly starting at level one.

This isn't a change in PK status or how that works. I'd assume Avechna and Karma or some similar system would still be around. I forgot to mention this: Manses would be held in Stasis just like Artifacts. We'd assume Estarra protected Avechna's peak. Basically, the only way this would work without pissing off the player base would be for all permanent items like manses and artifacts to remain.

I don't want to get into "how much free stuff do I get" factors, Arix. I'd rather see what people feel about it assuming they don't lose anything expensive in the process. If their existing guild or city doesn't exist, they have the opportunity to relearn everything without a penalty, if they need a new race they get one free reincarnation. If this was done, I don't believe in bribing the player base with "free stuff", rather just making sure nobody loses their investments.

Basically, it's a jump to the future, while you and your manses are held in stasis for 1500 years or so (or transported to the future), the Basin evolves around you. But so much can happen over 15 centuries...

Realistically, I don't think this would ever happen. As one poster stated it might be seen as a sign of failure. I could see it as a radical revamp if the game suddenly started atrophying people, if they had a big idea for changing how the politics work, or I could see it as a way to massively revamp skill systems all at once--like suddenly if they decided there should be no summonable ents or demenses or make it so afflictions have a random chance of failure/success rather than the binary status they have today..

I was trying to compare it to something that the D&D worlds have done to advance metaplots and worlds where things have changed, mostly done for rule-revamps. (Reboot is probably too strong a word, since that usually means wiping out past continuity instead of just advancing things).

The same people would still end up in power, perhaps different orgs. I'd probably end up in an org with amaru forren daevos revan ethelon and ixion thoros and whoever else would follow. The same alpha dogs would rise, perhaps some new ones, and there would be the open beta + 6months worth of fighting and dominance. Really things would end up similair to the way they are now.

As long as my charachter isn't rebooted, I'd love it.

However, changes to skills would not be good, because that is basically the same as my charachter being rebooted. Unless the changes are along the lines of an Envoy report change.

I doubt I would play a "reboot" since the current atmosphere of Lusternia is one of its biggest draws for me.

While I did like the experience of open beta much more, I don't think this would recapture that.

Exploration was cool. Completely unknown mechanics were cool. Everyone floundering around, trying to get their footing, that was cool. The unregulated atmosphere--stressful as it was, that was cool.

Reinventing the atmosphere would be cool because it gets back the exploration feel. Everything else? Eh. It's...Lusternia with new factions and new guilds of presumably the same archetypes. Not that there's anything at all wrong with the archetypes--it's just not "Oooh, shiny" anymore. I don't think you can recapture that without a major rewrite, and if you're going to do that, you might as well leave Lusternia alone and start a new game on a new server.

I'll probably jump ship when the next IRE MUD comes out. Lusternia's drifted a long way from what drew me here initially--the feelings of conflict and scarcity have died. I have lots of ideas for what might better mitigate the player stress that comes from PvP, lots of them adaptations from other successful models, and not a single one of them could be reasonably put in here at this point (or, quite possibly, at any point in our game's past). Avenger really works fine for moderating PK. It's so much better than the alternatives out there. It doesn't do a thing about people getting angry at each other, though.

I'd play, but anyone who thinks there is even a ghost of a chance (hello, a certain cartoon's abridged version!) of it happening is extremely delusional.

Can't really reply to the poll because I'd play it because I like the community, but I would hate it since it would destroy everything I've worked for, at least for my shadowdancer character, and I'm not sure I'd play for much longer after that.

I'm sure I would at least try it out because of what many people said, the playerbase. I have a feeling most of the organizations would just...stick together though.

I'd probably play. It'd be rather interesting so, yes. I'd play.