Let me begin by saying I have never been all that good as an OH even in the best of times. Prior to becoming Viravain's OH, I had never even been in an IRE Order before, and I was not in her Order very long at all before being elevated to OH - something that happened despite my own assertions that I wasn't the right person for the job, although I was both flattered and honored by it, and it became something I would have been loathe to give up, despite my initial protests.

However, my lack of knowledge of what to do with an Order, and in honesty, "my" Viravain's level of uncertainty about what to do with an Order, has not been without consequence. With a few exceptions, the Order has largely been listless and lacking in direction and activity. I think it would be safe to say that, if the Order were dissolved today, it would take a long, long time for anyone to notice, including the Order members.

Granted, I do not think the burden for direction and activity all falls on the leader of an org. However, I do think I should at least be the catalyst for that sort of thing, and I haven't been great about it in the past.

Well, now, "my" Viravain has been gone for some time. Current Viravain does show up from time to time, although she's mostly there to gauge Glomdoring's progress and isn't really involved from an RP/playing our Goddess perspective. Which is understandable. This post isn't about Glomdoring's condition or why we don't have an active Viravain or anything like that. I understand how we got here, and whatever I might think about the merits or demerits of that, I understand it, and it's our present circumstances, regardless.

However, in the absence of a fully dedicated Viravain, I'm even more at a loss than before.

I would really, really like to make something cool out of this Order. There's so much potential both in the idea of it and the people involved. However, I'm really in the dark as far as what to do. So, I thought I'd ask you.

I realize I need to be more "active" in the Order, but what form should that take? What are things I should be doing, and what are things the Order should be doing? What are some ideas for the role the Order could be playing in Glomdoring?

I should note that I'm just as interested in hearing from our current admins/divines as I am players (and if the former group is reluctant to publicly comment, I'd welcome a PM as well), because I would certainly benefit from your own experiences, and also, I would like the Order to occupy a place in Lusternia's story, and perhaps you'd have some unique takes on how that could happen. I am of course, just as interested from hearing from the rest of you.

start discussions.

If people aren't talking about a concept, they most likely are not thinking much about it either. And they most certainly are not aware of what other people think about it.

Even if you have to manufacture a debate/crisis, get people talking to each other.

The rest will fall into place then.


I realise that the hard part about Viravain, and other gods of that personality, is that discussion and debate are not really something you want to support. You want to foster I-IT relationships and not I-thou relationships, which makes debate difficult. However, I am sure you can find a way to foster I-It discussions and debates as well.

I saw Lisaera in Glom not too long ago, what was up with that?

Maybe just start a few bounty hunts or something in Viravain's name. Reward the top three contenders. Have the opposite of a discussion, have a sermon type thing teaching others about Viravain. Have Viravain T-shirts and such made. Have people write books and songs about her. Get her name lodged very, very firmly to the right of their brain so that while they aren't zombies for Viravain, they know exactly where she is and where they are.

Cookies with a black rose on them might be nice too.

You need a purpose, rooted in some concrete ideals, and a direction to move in.

Determine the basic tenets, and build the purpose of the Order around those ideals. Existing just to exist gets boring pretty fast. Your Order needs a measurable, attainable set of goals if you really want to boost activity and interest.

It's very easy to fall into the "abstract" trap. Orders have a tendency to get heady and philosophical, but this translates poorly into activity. Sparking interesting conversation is a dead end unless action follows.

Viravain's Order comes with another set of challenges, as the divinity is so closely tied to the forest. You don't want the Order to just be a subset of Glomdoring, unless you've got a very specific and focused idea for a relevant subset.

It's not an easy task to run an Order, but in my time in other IRE games, being OH was one of the most rewarding jobs I've ever tackled. Even when my chosen divine left, we were able to keep on keeping on because we'd built the Order around a set of objectives and not just the worship of a divine.

Agreed, agreed, and agreed. I'm going to try to give some examples/ideas.

One of Viravain's teachings, as I understand it, is the power and importance of beauty ( a bit of a steal from the oldest of the glomdoring material, actually ) . You could try to focus things around this with art and gardening and other cultivation/art sort of things. There's idea one.

Going off of Xinemus the character, you could try Viravain's order as manic converting priests - missionaries who run out and try to bring everyone into the beauty of the Wyrd. You could go dig up source material from christian missionary orders and see if there's anything interesting to steal.

Other, smaller fly-by concepts: obsessive ecologists, primalistic party animals, keepers of the past/truth.

1. Convert them by forcing them to shed their ugly non-Wyrd body, and adapt a new form. Zealots in the name of Beauty would be interesting, I'd think.

2. Any ideas not used will be happily snatched up by Veyda and I for Shikari-business.

@Shikari-types: I'm actually hoping that, if Shikari's Order gets rolling, that we can figure out some things to try together.

@Shayle: Thank you for the -very- helpful insights.

@Everyone: Thanks for all the great input I've received so far.

so it turns out the rest of the world doesn't care , ouch.

Yes because that added such a great amount to the thread, not that you're one to talk anyway. Grow up.

Anyway back to the subject, running an Order can be pretty difficult- quite a few people only join for easy divine favours or something like that. Most of the orders I've been in during my time in IRE have been generally the same, with a few people doing the work and everyone else not really doing much. It doesn't really help that we're lacking in an active Viravain which means people are even less interested in doing anything. It's hard enough getting people interested in Glom, though I think if you can get some interested people involved it makes the whole thing a lot easier. If I can help in any way feel free to speak with me.

That's fine. Then they don't need to respond, whoever you are.

So, how's Mirh Barosi doing these days, huh?

First of all, I wish you luck as OH since I know it's not exactly easy work, especially with an inactive/near inactive divine.

Second of all, it is going to be difficult still even if you get some ideals to follow up and going and other things besides the worship of your chosen divine. While it helps, you still need to find a way for those in the Order to get involved with them as well. Being interesting help, but need to figure out what will keep it interesting after a time. Charune has 4 OHs, each leading a different sect in the Order so those in it can focus on whichever sect they like, or all 4 if they choose. The problem with this that I find we have is that almost everyone we have joining the Order goes into the easiest sect to follow, that is, the one with the least work to do and such, the Order stagnates somewhat. I'd have to suggest that before you go making radical changes to ask those in the Order what they'd be interested in seeing changed, IC or OOC, whichever you choose, perhaps both to find out how you can make it interesting to them and something they want to participate in and if you don't get much of a response, keep poking at them until you get sufficient information to start making changes that interests everyone. There will still be those that don't do much of anything at all, but it'll be more fun for those who want to do more. Of course, I could be totally wrong on this too and be giving you horrible information to follow, but you decide for yourself!

I think that was the point. Deal with it.

we've talked about it briefly, but you can always talk to me about some of the Demon Lords since so much of Glom already parallels them. She seems to be alot like Nif, in some ways. Anywho, you know where to find me.

A little late to the thread, but nevermind.

To repeat what has been said before, a clear purpose, informed by a strong and coherent set of ideals, is paramount. While this purpose is unlikely ever to be realized in full, it should, at least, be attainable in part, to offer Order members an incentive for involvement, and a sense of achievement. To this end, you might choose to make for the Order, a series of small goals that stem naturally from Viravain's tenets, and which are possible to achieve from a mechanical perspective.

Any axioms or aspirations that you define, typically need to be firm and clear to the point of being linear. That isn't to say that individual interpretation is unwelcome, and Glomdoring is perhaps better-versed in ambiguity than the other organizations. However, looking back on my actions during the earliest days of Ayridion's Order, defining the ideals important to the Order, the expected conduct of its members, and suggesting a few 'devotion tasks', was insufficient. An Order is really just 'something else to do' in a game of many things to do, and the Order head is seen as responsible for providing that 'something else'. Between Metea's infatuation with Ayridion, and my own fear of railroading the Order, I was too hesitant in establishing objectives and a means of progression, and, regrettably, the quality of experience within the Order suffered for it.

Entering an Order, a player expects to acquire a distinct identity and new community of friends. As the Orderhead, the onus is on you to provide these things, and often it's a difficult task. The only common ground between the characters in the Order, might be membership of the Order itself; bringing together the basher, the die-hard role-player, and the person who joined only because they were interested in activating Wrath, is a challenge. Communication is very important. Posts to the Order newsboard reassure members that things are happening, and that the Order is moving forward; if the atmosphere is stale, most will find other things to do. Order-related hunting trips and rituals can help to encourage involvement.

Opportunities for progression will inevitably be limited by Viravain's inactivity, but perhaps delegation and thanks will be sufficient rewards in the meantime. Likewise, with Viravain for the most part missing, your character has the final word on Order matters. This isn't necessarily a hinderance, since it will allow you to forge ahead with your plans, and quickly implement whatever additions or changes you intend to make.

Ultimately, whatever the direction in which you choose to guide the Order, do so with conviction. Good luck!

I cannot say much more than what Shayle has already said. Being in an Order, much less an OH, has always been one of the best experiences that I have had in other IRE games....and one of the most frustrating. Just know that there is always help, just need to know who to ask