I have been having some real difficulty with high leveled folks with stats that are all about the same. Even...or close to even...mana/health/ego. Even with claws/phantom/demesne/telepathy/and the occasional staff/psychic vampirism CONSTANTLY.....I just can't kill them. They tank and tank and tank and tank. Sometime I totally halt their offense...but they just don't seem to die. I'm a Kephera 14 int/charisma with the champ staff. I survive just fine, but the killing blow always seems just out of reach. Maybe I should dominate more? Any suggestions would be great. Thanks

It can get tough, you could try dominating them into debating you, and set it up so they take the loss. Then psyvamp them. Try also afflicting first up, phobias can be fun, but try to use illusions more and stick reckless on them.

As I told you, could go for an attrition fight and drain their willpower to 0. You could also try debating if you can tank them and go unhindered fairly well. Dominating a monk for any sort of action that requires eq/bal is hard since kata's automatically use them up instantly by system code or some such. Anywho, talk to Revan or Xanon or Ixchilgal. They know what they're doing when it comes to telepathy. I'd list Forren, but I'd doubt you'd wanna ask him

Eh?

This is also considered a lame tactic, people might kill you for using it if you do. This could also take awhile, during which you have no time.. and knights might not care too much (other than focus mind). Theres much better solutions..


@Forren: He means not to ask you because she is a Mag, and he presumes you wouldnt help mags. Or that she wouldnt ask

I never did use demesne too much, but im faced with the same problem actually.. and worse cause the telekinetic instakill is very hard to pull off.. but sometimes i manage to put all my spells in, and then literally dont know what to do next.. claws/phantom/wounds/stars even.. then try to hide clot under choke.. but they just started eating yarrow after blackout and.. sipping and stuff.. and it gets frustrating sometimes..

i was thinking of shifting to telepathy and hoping itll be btter.. but its interesting to know of this situation..

I think Murphy covered most of it. Spam illusions. There are a few systems (like Thoros', for example) that are very good against illusions, but against most people you can do some serious damage if you use effective illusions. Plan out your illusions and combos well. For example, if you want to stick addiction you might use an anorexia illusion then stupidity/addiction. If it works, anorexia will make them either waste an herb or focus mind, stupidity will make them do the other, and addictions sticks just for a second since they're off herb balance and can't focus mind. Plan your illusions to supplement the afflictions you are going for, and always plan your afflictions to work toward a kill method. Don't waste time with anything that doesn't get you closer to the kill. Dominating/illusioning someone to make them writhe, for example, is pretty worthless unless you just have to slow down their offense. It doesn't get you any closer to killing them.


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Telepathy is much better for combat. Telekinesis has some interesting ideas behind it, but you will most likely never pull off a heartburst against a competent fighter. You can slow people down by using things like sweat + calcise dagger + breakleg/breakarm, and leglock + throatlock whoring can help you get closer to the burst if you do them in the right order. You should always try to time throatlock to hit after leglock, since they are focused off in the order they are afflicted. If leglock hits first then throatlock, you are guaranteed at least a couple seconds of no sipping, but even that isn't enough to actually make any progress most of the time.

If this is a 'lame' tactic then I promise you that there are plenty other tactics which surpass this is lameness. To better relate, we might as well call them Sojiro since he's the king of lame. This tactic however, actually takes time. If the other person is unable to kill you in the however long it might take, then what does it say about them? You don't always have all the time in the world to fight someone.

What makes a fighting tactic lame anyway? Seriously. I've always wondered when someone says something is lame, what makes it so. I mean other than like they're abusing a bug or something, which automatically equals lame.

I've been told numerous times using dominate and debating is very lame. I still use it (just the debating part) against folks like Narsrim or Forren, usually.

Edit: Also, Bianca, level up and you should be fine

It's not a bug, but I could dominate someone to drop all their vials (assuming selfishness was off).

Generally, something that's unavoidable / incurable (like willpower drain) is considered "lame"-- especially when psivamp's drain was a lot higher (quite some time ago).

I dunno, maybe it's just cause I'm not a fighter, so I don't get all the ins and outs and so on, but that seems more like creative strategy than lameness.

I'm afraid of trying some things due to people calling me lame on forums Good thing I gave up on fighting.

Forcing someone to get drunk, drain all their power (sip vitae, anyone?), empty vials are things that most would consider lame. Forced Debating is like.. forcing to attack yourself, just with ego. I don't see how that is more lame than, say, mindblasting a mage and ordering them to staff themselves. Same result. On top of this, you can prevent forced debating.

Hungerwhoring and willpower draining can be lame. As for people who use psi vamp for it - since the change, psi vamp is much slower with draining. It used to be ridiculous - 25 vamps and the person is out of willpower. Now it takes much, much longer. 99.99% of my opponents die well before even reaching into the half willpower.

Combat tactics that are 'lame' are usually things that are particularly disruptive to combat but are not in and of themselves the entire reason for a win, mostly. My biggest example would be when Imperian had a tremendous problem with stun attacks - people used them like mad, back in the day, and the stuns had an unhealthy habit of stacking. A Mage spamming hailstorm in their vibes (passive room effects kind of like demesnes.. kind of) was usually considered 'lame' because it was outside of the box but impossibly strong in contrast with the rest of their offense. Another example is Wardancers spamming shield stun while another player cleaves (more of a 'lame, i was teamed and given no chance to fight back' issue) - but in the end, all IRE games share a list of crappy lame tactics.

Hunger tactics are similar - when you hit starving, you start passing out, etc. It's incredibly disruptive to the flow of combat and just renders the fight over or pretty unfun. I have a habit of carrying food just to eat against newbies who don't know any better, though. In my opinion, these tactics are only denied because they're just outright and universally considered 'not fun' for all parties involved. After all, there's a certain level of honor and integrity (in my opinion) between combatants in and across IRE games - it's unseen, unspoken of, etc.. but I have always held myself to some standard of 'whore unto others and you would like to be whored upon yourself'. Hence, I usually don't throw out the traditional lame stuff unless they start it first. Then I just don't hold back.

I see a problem with willpower and endurance drain but accept it as a real, viable method of a win if it comes down to who can last the longest like that. I've personally done it in fights in other IRE games to preserve an arena record or not lose experience. I have yet to run in to a problem in Lusternia like that yet - which is a plus, since while I love long and drawn out fights (I am reminded of my fights with a certain Druid).. it can get upsetting to just not feel like you're winning without using a considerably cheap trick.

It is if both sides are running it down as part of their normal offence-- it's only really "lame" if you're continually casting a skill like psivamp (pre-nerf especially) to force them down without really hurting yourself in any way. Then it's not really a "who can last the longest," it's a "Heh, well, if you can't kill me in a couple minutes, you're dead with no way out of it." Even worse than sleep or hunger.

If using abilities that make people hungry or make them sleep are lame, then what's the point of having those abilities? I mean, if you're not a particularly strong fighter and you get in a fight with someone much stronger than you, and you manage to kill them using these generally lower level abilities... that seems like strategy to me.

I dunno. Like I said, maybe it's cause I just don't fight that much (and when I do, I go in knowing I will die and pretty much feel accomplished if I get three or more hits in first) that I don't get it.

What's the point, indeed?

There are reasons that things like Dilute were removed.