This isn't meant to be a gripe against the Charites, just an honest inquiry because I myself am of two minds about this one.

Lots of people with manses have game rooms for their chess or bombard tables, so I decided to make a few items to fit into those rooms:

• a dartboard sconce
• a dice and cards table
• a billiards and snooker table
• a pinball table (no lights, just levers, springs, etc.)

I wasn't sure if they'd let them through. None of them uses any technology that is beyond Lusternia's available, or anything that isn't already used in other furniture. However, in some cases I'm 'inventing' a game that Lusternia doesn't yet have (billiards, darts, pinball)... which isn't, I don't think, unprecedented. In one case (the dice and cards table) my table could be confused with the ones in gambling halls (I only made it anyway because we do have artifact dice and at least tarot cards as actual game objects).

And, most of all, none of these items actually will have any coded support. You'd have to roleplay out playing pinball or billiards, and the furniture would only be a prop. This is the clincher reason for most of the rejections I got.

I had anticipated this objection, and went ahead anyway, because so much of the furniture already in the catalog is already like that. How many of the beds are explicitly described as for sex, for which there isn't code support? There are even several which include bondage props, but you don't really have to writhe free from them. One bed, designed for a Nifilhema fan, includes potentially lethal iron spikes and a lever which can impale the unfortunate sleeper upon them, but does no coded damage. We also have such niceties as a workbench table you can't actually draw sketches on, sconces and chandeliers which offer no actual light, swings that you have to roleplay swinging in, and I have a whole line of baby-related furniture despite the lack of baby objects.

But maybe this is different. No one expects one of those things to imply coded support, but the presence of manse-artifact chess and bombard tables, and the furniture in gambling halls, means people might expect if they see a pinball table in a room (even if it's in Furniture color, not Things color) that it should do something coded. Besides, what if the admins ever decide to develop a manse artifact Billiards Table? Mine will suddenly become an obstacle, or at very least an even greater source of confusion.

I keep waffling about whether I agree with the Charites' decision or not. (I'm pretty sure I'll concede on the dice/cards table due to the real possibility of confusion with gambling halls, but still waffling on the other three.) And I'd have to disagree with it pretty solidly before I'd appeal it (even considering the 20,000gp I put into these designs) because, really, the Charites get a lot of guff and nowhere near enough thanks for the work they do for us, and I hate to make things worse. But I also really liked the idea of seeing these in game rooms. (These were not going to make me rich -- they'd only cost a few thousand each -- so it'd just be for the fun of adding this stuff to Lusternia.) So I'd like to hear what other people think.

Edit: I've amended the dice and cards table considerably to make it a generic games table that explicitly says it doesn't include the parts for any games, just a place to play them, and lists some types of games you might play with it (mankala, pick-up sticks, checkers, marbles, tinkertoys, nine men's morris, jacks, etc.) if you had the smoothed stones or coloured sticks or marbles needed for it, and resubmitted it. The other three I'm still waiting for input about, to decide how to proceed.

*A dartboard sconce

It's like saying I want a roulette lamp, isn't it?

*A dice and cards table

Sounds great

*A billiards and snooker table

That'd be great, if we had those games.

*A pinball table (no lights, just levers, springs, etc.)

Hasn't been invented yet, and I'm not sure it fits. Although, isn't there a more low tech Japanese kind?


Otherwise, I agree.

yea dont like the pin ball table but everything else is ok didnt they have playing card artifacts and dice though??

I'm not sure why "not invented yet" is a problem when I'm trying to invent them. But it's a problem for the Charites too, so I guess I'd better figure it out.

There's nothing in my pinball machine design that requires anything more than springs, gears, and levers. It's much less complex than a clock, probably more comparable to a tumbler lock. Easily within the tech level of other artisan crafts, even without quoting Elostian's reminders about electron microscopes.

Yes, there's artifact dice. No cards yet so far as I know; the only cards objects are tarot cards. (Real world playing cards correspond to the minor arcana of real world tarot cards because that's where they evolved from, so that's actually relevant.)

While I appreciate the feedback on these other things, what I want from this thread is input on the question of whether the fact that you can't play these games mechanically save by roleplaying it out yourself is a show-stopper. The "feasible to build" and "could be invented" concerns are ones I feel confident I could successfully address already, but no point if the confusion factor of the lack of game code renders it moot.

I don't know about anyone else, but something certainly doesn't have to be mechanically supported for it to fit. Card and other game tables would serve to add flavor to a game room. And if a group of people got together and roleplayed out playing a game of craps or something, so what?

I think sometimes the Charties are a bit too closed minded.

(On an unrelated note... what the heck is snooker?)

Snooker is just another version of pool. It more popular in Europe than in the states. Refer to the almight WIKIPEDIA.

Anything to improve the level of roleplay gets a thumbs up from me. I personally would like to see objects become a little more interactive. I know it would mean a lot more work for the Charities, but those changes could possibly make Lusternia more entising.

If it doesn't do anything, couldn't you just put it in the room description and roleplay it out that way?

That being said, I don't think it would hurt anything, I just wouldn't ever buy one.

An actual object can have more detail (You can look at it, emote with it...).

Plus you can put details on the table/whatever that a person just standing in the room might not notice, and making them notice it is lame - whereas it would be a detail someone would notice if they looked specifically at the table/whatever.

Not to mention that if you try to put all sorts of minute furniture details in a room description the room description has a good chance to get to crazy lengths. Which is silly when you can actually put furniture in the room.

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be artisans...

I've resubmitted retooled versions of these designs along with a comment explaining my reasoning and referring to this poll. If they're rejected again, I won't pursue it any farther. I hope that my comments come off, as intended, as a humble request for reconsideration, not argumentative.

I hope they work out Lendren! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Mixed results. The retooled dice-and-cards table (described as being just for various games and explicitly saying the players need to bring their own stones, markers, dice, pieces, or cards) passed, as did the billiards/snooker table (only changed to remove those specific words). The pinball table was rejected as being too far from the usual uses of tables; I'm a little surprised that the billiards table passed but the pinball table didn't, since they seemed to be about equal in that regard, but I'm not complaining. The dartboard was rejected as too far from sconces.

I'm counting myself as pretty lucky and pretty grateful. (Though the idea of a pinball table made with gears and springs only was really appealing to me; I kind of wish they'd passed that and failed the others, instead.)

I'd love more of a chance to create an ambience, though, so cool effort. I'm still trying to get the guild to build already-existing sconces everywhere, and I'm also of the opinion that not enough people build chandeliers.

Maybe adding more inexpensive artisan wares will get people interested in the roleplay functionality of the various other artisan crafts that go unused. I have -always- wanted to see more wall-features; someone suggested mirrors and clocks, too, I think. These ideas are definitely a step in the right direction.

Didn't someone suggest artisan-crafted marionettes, too?

Snooker is like pool in the same way that badminton is like squash. They both use the same equipment, but the rules, balls and playstyle are completely different.

NINE MONTHS.

Wtf?